Exit from Brexit

it was won on lies and fraud too. And we all know it, and by a tiny majority.

If you are so confident, why not give people a vote on the final deal. Simple.

No varian the referendum was not won by lies, it was won by the majority who voted to leave.

varian
well, not me for one
But we did not know what the future could bring - I don't have a crystal ball like yours, sorry.

Some leavers definitely did believe lies. Not all -but enough to make a difference.

That referendum was ill-concieved, fraudulent and won by lies and the fact that 26% of the UK population either believed the lies or were persuaded to vote for this nonsense for some other reason is a national disgrace.

It is about time that Scotland Yard investigated the illegalities perpertuatetd by the Leave campaign so that the whole sorry charade could be declared null and void.

For some of us yes varian continued membership of the EU was far easier to understand which is why so many voted to leave.

lemongrove "very influential member" and those who voted for Brexit are accused of believing lies.

If you can't see that brexit is the pig in the poke, surely you have no understanding of the state we are in.

‘Very influential member’.........you are surely joking?!

Being in the EU was buying a pig in a poke in the first place.

No.*Jalima*. Continued membership of the EU is far easier to understand.

We don't buy a pig in a poke, we don't jump over a cliff, we don't try to make an egg out of an ommlette - we just carry on being a very influential member of the world's biggest and best trading block, enjoying all the benefits of EU membership whilst not being in the Euro, or in Schengen and having a rebate - in other words the best deal of any EU nation.

Who in their right mind would want to throw that away?

varian you've posted that "nobody knows what brexit will mean and that goes for those who voted for and against it.

It does and it was also quite difficult to find out exactly what continued membership of the EU was going to bring too.

Maisie d

" I'm a bit shock that you are equating 'working class' solely with Labour voters, POGS. A lot of working class people vote tory. "
----

I couldn't agree more and yet there is a persistence by some even on GN Tories are wealthy toffs isn't there Maizie d.

I seem to confuse you often.

We will know more in a day or two, the best that is likely to be offered is a Norway type deal and to be honest I don't like having to obey their rules with, no say on making the rules.

The only way that Remain is going to happen is for a second vote, there are far too many MPs saying the 1st vote should be respected.

I would certainly vote remain again but I'm not hearing any great groundswell of demand for remain, everybody seems to believe the rubbish fed to them by the media.

It is quite possible to understand that any kind of brexit will be bad without knowing which of the bad brexit scenarios we might be heading for.

varian you've posted that "nobody knows what brexit will mean* and that goes for those who voted for and against it. That doesn't seem to prevent the constant rhetoric from some remainers that it will be a complete disaster though does it, and the constant sneering at those who voted leave.

The experts you refer to in your last paragraph don't know for certain what Brexit will mean either, but once again you're telling us that in their opinion "any brexit will be bad". How do they know when you've stated "nobody knows what brexit will mean*?

The most nonsensical claim that the brexiters make, over and over again, is that "the Leave voters knew what they were voting for".

They didn't know - how could they possibly have known when even now, two and a half years later, nobody knows what brexit will mean - to themselves, their families, their communities or the country. Nobody knows. Nobody knows the likely consequenses of "the deal" (if there is one) or the appalling "no deal" scenario.

All we know for sure is that we can never have such a good deal as we have now and we would do well to listen to the experts - in business, international trade, academia, health, manufacturing, agriculture, construction, administration, transport, security, defense, the arts and so many other areas of our national life who all tell us that any brexit will be bad, but a "no-deal" brexit will be catastrophic..

As for bringing class into it the one common denominator I have observed is the ' working class ' who voted Leave are illiterate , xenophobic , fools . Yet another time we are told Labour voters did not vote Leave it is all the Tory Party who brought us to this mess and are the party of Leavers.

I'm a bit that you are equating 'working class' solely with Labour voters, POGS. A lot of working class people vote tory.

@jura

I don't have a link for the actual graphic but I got it from this twitter thread:

twitter.com/NHSvBrexit/status/1051921228347379712

It is just plain bloody stupid to say Right/Left wing Brexiters as it is to say Left /Right wing Remainers. Some posters have actually lied about the way I voted for example.

As for bringing class into it the one common denominator I have observed is the ' working class ' who voted Leave are illiterate , xenophobic , fools . Yet another time we are told Labour voters did not vote Leave it is all the Tory Party who brought us to this mess and are the party of Leavers.

There is no he/she/they /who/what that can define how 72.2 % of the eligible vote , nor how 33. 6 million people voted .

It can be argued the share of the vote for a particular constituency denotes the feeling and if the constituency is 'known' to be left or right then a fair assessment can be made but even that is NOT foolproof as the EU Referendum was not a Left/Right choice .

There is however a great deal of spin to suit the narrative and rhetoric which as stupid as making statements about knowing how /who/why all the 33.6 million voted. .

Bringing class into the referendum vote is surely wrong.
I'll amend that

Bringing class and a liking for blood sports of a particular type into the referendum vote is surely wrong.

Some of these right-wing brexiters claim to be animal lovers. Mind you it doesn't stop many of them supporting blood sports, where human beings consider the torture and slaughter of animals to be "jolly good fun," so even that may not alter their attitude to brexit.

Do you mean fox-hunting, shooting varian?
What about the left-wing brexiteers - do they favour fox-hunting, shooting, or a different type of 'blood sports' eg dog-fighting, ferreting?
Bringing class into the referendum vote is surely wrong.
So many wear flat caps these days.

I am just curious to know why you think that.

Thanks , could you give it as a shareable link, please.

This seems like a good place to put this graphic, then varian
Too big for the side of a bus, alas.

Here is an incomplete list of uncomfortable truths that the British government, its supposedly left-wing opposition in the Labour party, and the 17.4 million people who voted for Britain to leave the EU do not want to hear.

There is no plan, and there never was a plan. The “Leave” campaign never had the integrity to present the public with a program for withdrawal. If it had, voters might have realized that Brexit would either bring a huge dislocation as Britain tore itself out of an integrated European economy, or would turn Britain into an EU satellite state, obeying its rules but without a voice in their formulation.

The head of Vote Leave, one of the two umbrella groups leading the 2016 campaign, explained in June 2015 that constructing workable proposals for Britain’s future was “an almost insuperable task…

There is much to be gained by swerving the whole issue.” Instead of honestly confronting Britain’s place in the world, the campaign offered brazen lies: Brexit would deliver £350 million ($462 million) a week to our health service; Turkey was about to join the EU and flood Britain with millions of Muslim migrants.

www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/07/12/how-the-bbc-lost-the-plot-on-brexit/

Some of these right-wing brexiters claim to be animal lovers. Mind you it doesn't stop many of them supporting blood sports, where human beings consider the torture and slaughter of animals to be "jolly good fun," so even that may not alter their attitude to brexit.

I heard a tv discussion on the possibility of a People's Vote where the swivel-eyed rightwinger on the panel threatened civil unrest if the 17m were "betrayed". Should we cave in to these bullies? I don't think so. I hope there is a huge turnout for the big march next weekend.

www.peoples-vote.uk/march

... and the animals. Now personally, I would love all live exports to be stopped - Brexit or no Brexit.

Perhaps the sight of lorryloads of sheep and cattle being shot after being stuck on M20 or M26 (new car park) because they can't be fed or watered or kept in the lorry - will concentrate the mind a bit.

Food and livestock could be delayed at UK borders in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the National Audit Office says. The public spending watchdog warns the government has failed to hire enough vets to process exports from the UK in its no-deal preparations.

The Department for Food and Rural Affairs says it's preparing for a range of scenarios and has hired extra staff.

But the Committee of Public Accounts chairwoman, Labour's Meg Hillier, said: "We are rapidly running out of time."

National Farmers Union president Minette Batters said the report showed Defra was not ready for a no-deal situation. She warned a "crash-out scenario" would be "Armageddon" for British farmers, who needed a "free and frictionless trade deal" with the EU to operate. Defra is one of the government departments most affected by Brexit.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45492079

Some farmers may have voted for Brexit, but did any of them vote for "Armageddon"?