Has the referendum poisoned our society?

Nothing to do with Brexit.

Although we are comparatively tolerant compared with other countries, racism and religious hatred have always been with us. It’s tribalism pure and simple. Remember the landlady notices in the ‘50’s? No Blacks, No Irish, etc. In our politically correct society now the sign would say - if it were allowed - No People of Colour, No Muslims. (There were few Muslims in the 1950s). It’s always been there.

NfkDunpling
I think hatred is too strong a term.
I think there are those in our society who would prefer our society to be as it was pre war.
In early marriage I luved in a northern mill town. There was (and still is) quite a large West Indian contingent...no problems. There were/are folk from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Generally everyone got along. Although no major issues ever arose it was only when certain areas of the town became ghettoed those who once were part of the community had now created their own 'townships with male heads 'elders', many of whom couldnt speak English, attitudes began to change towards this group as their attitude towards the rest of the community also changed. The change was also felt by the other immigrant communities who had integrated far more.
I therefore feel that we should not always pile the hatred on the indigenous population, there is 'concern' throughout other sections of the communities.

well said Jennifer I so agree thank you for your sensible comment

joelsnan
Spot on Re the elders ruling the Muslim communities.
Did you see the programme ' Lost boys: Whats going wrong for Asian men'
There was a young man who up until he went to university had not come in contact with any white English boys/men.
What the reporter was trying to understand was why the mainly Pakistani and Bangladesh boys weren't 'making it' in the world but Indian boys of all faiths were.

Those immigrant communities always lived together ,I know that there are parts of Glasgow that are/were entirely irish or Jewish and it was the same in my grandparents and great grandparents time .My GGF was on the stage ,he was irish and he was subjected to the No Irish signs when he toured the country ,his son worked in the jewish community as tailoring was almost exclusively jewish in Glasgow and he moved to a jewish area .There is far more integration now in this part of the world .I do think there has always been racism but Brexit gave people a voice,they think they can say anything about anyone no matter how offensive it is and get away with it.

andycameron69 Thank you! I knew there had to be somebody out there who agreed with me!

I loathe the way any talk about immigration is seen as racism.

Thank you to those who made constructive comments, interesting that some are fed up about questions on Brexit yet, they still made a comment.
I believe Gransnet was created for older people to express their views, It was not in my view created for the expression of rudeness or insulting other people’s views.
Constructive varied views rather than negative rudeness helps to identify ways of understanding the fluctuations in the polls we so often see. Thank you to those who made the effort to respond in a courteous manner

Oh jennifereccles I hope you still keep your opinion when doctors and nurses are fewer and fewer, not to mention fruit pickers care home workers, plumbers Need I go on etc etc etc

And yes the referendum has taken us back 60 years .... hideous

So are you saying there are not enough British doctors, nurses, plumbers etc?

I am perfectly sure you are not, so your argument doesn't hold water.

Anyway how about all those already here. Foreigners who are here legally have been given an assurance that they will be able to stay.

BlueBelle
And yes the referendum has taken us back 60 years .... hideous
A somewhat OTT statement.

The UK managed perfectly well with UK trades and labourers, we trained our own doctors, nurses, plumbers and bricklayers.
In 2004 Poland joined the EU and UK did not restrict movement of Polish Nationals as there had always been a special relationship between the two countries, however no one expected the flood of migrants that came, yes many were skilled, hard workers who accepted less wages. Companies started to recruit directly from Poland so UK employees were sidelined as expensive, lazy and slapdash, a change in attitude from before 2004.
Medical training was reduced, why train when you can import one already skilled, nurse training became more restrictive as did general apprenticeships for the same reason. Instead of investing in training those who would have benefitted were called lazy...was that true, or was it for a reason? If no training required then this overhead then becomes a profit. And, if it was true then it is society in general to address this and stop treating our children as china objects.
Of course Polish and other European workers are not to blame for going where the money is, but the impact on the UK workforce, the dumbing down if their pay, their skill levels and youth training has been (as you put it) ...hideous

Probably the Romans looked down on the Celts.
The Romans looked down on everyone who wasn't a Roman.

And enslaved many of them.

I read the OP which was not quite what I expected after reading the heading.
Are you a new poster MarthaBeck?
And are you a journalist?

so are you saying there are not enough British doctors, nurses, plumbers etc?

I am perfectly sure you are not, so your argument doesn't hold water

I am perfectly sure we do NOT have enough British doctors, and nurses (of whatever colour) to support our NHS. I’d add dentists into that list too.

Jennifer Eccles is absolutely right. We have far too many people living in this country, and we are seeing the consequences of unlimited immigration. Xenophobia has nothing whatever to do with it. Using the term is simply a way to shut up the people who have genuine concerns. Governments never seem to look ahead and consider the long term effects of their actions.

I'm amazed, Brexit is not going to result in any reduction in immigration, not a single one, in fact we are likely to see a continued increase in migration.
I take a friend to her hospital appointments, yesterday she was seen by a Nigerian nurse and a Polish Doctor, another couple in the waiting room saw a Greek doctor. Last week I took her to see the audiologist, a Romanian lady, indeed my own hairdresser is Romanian.
It's a great shame that UK staff cannot be found to fill these jobs and recruitment has to be done overseas. All these no longer get free health care or benefits, they have to pay for treatment, and the rules are being tightened all the time as they should be to prevent freeloading.

It's a travesty that so many in the UK pick immigration as a justification for Brexit

Well said MarthaBeck

I telephone canvassed in the lead up to the referendum, a large majority gave immigration as their reason for voting out. Housing, unemployment, long wait for NHS treatment the main reasons , very few racist comments, just too many immigrants, I posted this at the time.

Old Meg is quite right. Can someone remind us perhaps, how many years does it take to become

a doctor
a nurse
a dentist,
an audiologist
a radiographer, etc, etc, etc

let alone get the above to acquire the necessary experience on top of basic qualifications.

Will they all be ready in March 2019? Are you sure?

The consultants I have seen at our local hospital have been:

Rheumatology Iranian (I think)
Orthopaedics Asian
ENT Chinese and Indian
Dermatology American (British by marriage)
Anaesthetist Asian

They were all (except the American) clearly British educated and spoke with a posher accent than mine - well, I am a Scot.
I owe so much to these excellent doctors, mostly, I would say, second generation immigrants and I fear for the future of the NHS if such professionals are told that UK is no longer their home.

But not all immigrants work in the NHS, I have no problem with immigration just putting forward what has been said to me. Immigrants caused housing shortage, longer waiting times in NHS, willing to work for less pay than British workers , terrorism. Many voted out through fear . Before I am accused of sharing these fears, I voted remain.

It's not just NHS its across all service, care industry and manufacturing, skilled and unskilled, if we demand their services the have to be housed somewhere.

Yes I know Diana, but it is NHS which is spoken of far more than hotel staff etc

Anniebach, how do we get more of our own people to take up medicine, nursing and care work ?. The pay is good enough, one girl I know is a senior nurse drives a big Mercedes 4x4, has 3 kids too and earns a lot more than her husband, hard work but the prospects are good
I hear that there is a Nursing Apprenticeship scheme just started, is that the equivalent of the Student Nurses we all remember from long ago, does anyone know?.

Diana, perhaps we need to think back to Auxiliary, S,E.N and S.R.N. Seems nursing requires a degree now, could be there are young people who want to nurse but not go to university. One of my sisters went into nursing, she took her A’levels, worked on the wards and passed exams to become a SRN then Sister, now she would need a degree , fair enough, but girls then who didn’t gain their A’levels worked on the wards, became SEN’s , those without O and A’s could work on wards as auxiliary nurses.

Fair enough I say, and I'll agree- but will it take any less time to train, give experience and recruit? No, not much anyway.

As for doctors, 6 years, + 1 year, + at least 3 years experience to be at bottom of ladder.

Diana
More information here:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/nursing-degree-apprenticeships-factsheet/nursing-degree-apprenticeship-factsheet