Frank Field

I think it would reinforce the idea that regimes that suppress one part of society also oppress others. Which leads to a feeling of unity and support.

I wonder if Frank Field will remain MP after the vote next week, if it goes the way it should go. If he does it won’t be for long because the knives will be sharpened already . Criticise Corbyn and the anger of the extreme left will be let lose.

What is so wrong in my opinion is to accuse Margaret Hodge of using the holocaust, claiming she said things she didn’t say .

We speak of the suffering of the Jews and I was uncomfortable with the - it wasn’t only the Jews , i am sure this wasn’t said to dismiss the suffering of the Jews but it did come to mind.

If we spoke of Gays being subjected to the atrocities because we were discussing the Gay community how would ‘it wasn’t only the Gays’ come across

It did begin in Germany but not as many believe with the Jewish community. The first people targeted were the disabled. In 1933 the ‘Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring’ was passed, allowing for the forced sterilisation of those regarded as ‘unfit’. This included people with conditions such as epilepsy, schizophrenia and alcoholism. Prisons, nursing homes, asylums, care homes for the elderly and special schools were targeted to select people for sterilisation. It has been estimated that between 1933 and 1939, 360,000 individuals were subjected to forced sterilisation.
In 1939 the killing of disabled children and adults began. All children under the age of three who had illnesses or a disability, such as Down’s syndrome, or cerebral palsy were targeted under the T4 programme. A panel of medical experts were required to give their approval for the ‘euthanasia’, or supposed ‘mercy-killing’, of each child.
Many parents were unaware of the fate of their children, instead being told that they were being sent for improved care. After a period of time parents were told their children had died of pneumonia and their bodies cremated to stop the spread of disease.
Incidently sterilisation of the disabled was practised in some USA states as well

Yes,indeed Nellie.

I think everyone on here is well aware of the different groups of people labelled for particular attention by the Nazi regime, all of which were quite atrocious. The Jewish people however as the war progressed were persecuted with much more vigour, the main aim being to completely eradicate them from the face of the earth; much like the Japanese with regard to the Chinese. I know this as my stepfather was a POW with the Japanese after the fall of Singapore, and he said, and he said very little, that brutality was particularly severe for all the Chinese prisoners who unfortunately came into their path. The Europeans especially, had to watch or 'join in'.?! This is how the Nazi's treated the Jews. Meeting this sort of menacing attitude in your own political party must be very unnerving and, bearing in mind your family history deeply upsetting to say the least. All the films, documentaries, intellectual chat in the world can never fully portray the feeling of extra horror that family members actually suffered in this unspeakable way, something that others have difficulty in understanding.

Incidentally, I don’t belong to any political party, and I never have.

Friday 31st August,2018, an article in The Telegraph (sorry not very good at links, note to self, learn how) says that Nazi victims were likely to have been in the 15 to 20 millions, from a study over 13 years by historians based at the The Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC. They have studied a much broader base including the death camps, forced labour camps, Nazi ‘Care’ Centers, deaths which occurred under brutal cooperating regimes etc. It is not really surprising. I have visited this museum in Washington, and it is indeed eye opening. It covers all those persecuted and murdered, not just the Jewish people, though the fact remains that the Jews were the largest group. I believe over 60 million people died in WW2, but that figure includes service personnel, civilian victims, and all others. I think the Russians lost the most people.

It all seems a long way from Frank Field. But it is not. He feels his party is anti Semitic, and so has acted as he has. That is up to him. But it is against the backdrop of very recent history that this is all being played out. I admire Frank Field, I have admired him for a long time, in my opinion he is a man of principle, and a practicing Christian, who lives his life through the guidance of Christ’s teachings.

I think it began in Germany with the Jewish community, and I believe, given any chance that the atrocities they suffered, be ignored as it was in Germany, we risk history repeating itself. Frank Field has taken a stand and I applaud him.
The Labour movement is at risk, a thought too horrible to imagine,
We stand for fairness and justice for all.

Diverting

I didn't say they were terms of abuse I said they were used as such. I believe you have accused me of having such beliefs before Annie don't think you meant it as a compliment. Just think when my grandad was part of the communist movement here people in Germany were being sent to Dachau for it.

Thrisher, there has been no name calling, surely you don’t consider communist as derogatory when you have said your grandfather was a communist and how proud you are of him

As I have my grandmother's Grandemashe43. Perhaps then you can explain to me why it acceptable to use the the names communist and socialist on many threads as terms of abuse. Socialist I am proud to admit I am, Communist I am not, but these people were persecuted. I don't know which camp your father witnessed but I should imagine the people who entered Dachau where the political prisoners were held were as traumatised as he was. It is unimaginable. The idea that Nazi atrocities were confined to one race is commonly held now by many. It should in the interests of political freedom be challenged. This is not to negate the Jewish horrors but rather to emphasise that such regimes discriminate and destroy whole sections of society and only a free press and a freedom to debate can stand against them. And name calling and unfounded accusations do nothing to further political freedoms.

trisher, who has made anti semetic slurs?

Tricia, I most certainly would never forget any person who was interred in anyone of the camps, my Dad, carried his rosary beads with him to comfort anyone one, and believe me their were many who clung to him and the rosary beads he carried.I have those beads.

Grandmashe, well said.

You poor father must have witnessed what I couldn’t even imagine

Have sympathy with her by all means Grandmashe43 but be aware that she is a politician and that she opposes the present party leadership. Of course anti-semitic behaviour should be opposed by all but so should using anti-semitic slurs for political gain.

This thread is for posts on Frank Field and his speaking out against anti semitism and bullying in the Labour Party.

According to figures on the link I gave it was 6 million Jews and 5 million others. I would like to think all the people posting on this site had as much sympathy for the socialists, communists, Roma and Slavs, Jehovas witnesses and Gays who died, but I have a feeling they are much focussed on the Jewish community perhaps for their own political ends. The problem is if we forget the others we do them a disservice particularly the socialists, trade unionists and communists who opposed the Nazis and who campaigned against them so arguably died trying to save others.

As the daughter of a man who helped liberate one of the camps, and who never recovered from the terror of the sights he saw, Tricia, give it up, you will never convince any decent person from having sympathy with Margaret Hodge.
Anti semit behaviour must be denounced by all. The Labour Party I have loved is no more.

Well said niggly and maddy, Margaret said ‘in the 30’s’

The accusations accusing her of using death camps give a glimps of what Jews have to put up with and why Corbyn isn’t bothered about anti semitism .

She did not mention death camps, fact. It was obvious she was distressed when she gave the interview. To accuse her of using her families fate for political reasons is in my opinion cruel.

As the mother of a gay son trisher, I do not forget. But we also cannot forget that Jews were the primary victims.

For anyone who can't be bothered with the link
In the early years of the Third Reich, political prisoners were a significant portion of the concentration camp inmates. At the end of July 1933, about 27,000 political prisoners were being held in concentration camps in "protective custody."

Dachau was always a camp for political prisoners.

Then she should have said so maddyone using the behaviour of the Nazis was in my opinion a political move to get the publicity she was looking for and to attempt to prop up the last vestiges of support for a PLP which is right wing. It shows I suppose a certain degree of desperation. And let us not forget that Jews were not the only people who died in camps and in other places amongst them socialists and communists, the disabled and those whose ethnic origins were not acceptable. 5 million of them www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/articles/2005/01/20/holocaust_memorial_other_victims_feature.shtml

I would say that there seems to be a lot more anti Semitic behaviour in Britain today simply from watching news items. I could guess at a few reasons, but certainly any anti Semitic behaviour in any political party would seem to make such thinking and behaviour acceptable to some people. That is why any tolerance of such behaviour is dangerous.