May in trouble

How in the name of all that is holy, could anyone even contemplate Jacob Grease-Smogg as a party leader or Prime Minister?
This antiquated coprolite would have us return to feudalism and droit de seigneur.
I can imagine his fans as being like the ‘vomiting Tory Lady’ from Little Britain!

@AcornFairy

I'm not ignoring your question, just working at devising a simple answer to it because it's a bit complex.

If one of the 'young 'uns' made a break for it diane54 then Labour could well win the next election. Many people, myself included, are uneasy about the man. Not swayed by the nonsense peddled by the right wing red top tabloids, just not keen on him on a personal basis. I truly despair, both of the two major political parties are turning on themselves, meanwhile who is actually getting anything done? The party conference season will certainly be interesting this year.

OldMeg, no I don't think she's doing a good job. I despair at what the Tories have done. The word " homeless" is an utter disgrace.

I have no hope, I see nothing else and nobody else on the horizon.

oldbatty so you think May is doing a good job, by running the country into the ground? How do you feel when you see all the rough sleepers, as just one example?

Many of them are ‘young uns’ ....are these the ones you expect to ‘make a move’ perhaps?

One of the "young un's" will have to be elected by the party members, that might be a problem.

Sorry Gill I didn’t read your post. Well said.

Maizie asks ‘how could Labour do worse?’ Simple, they couldn’t.

D’you know...I’d be quite happy to pay a bit extra in tax to ensure I had access to decent health care in my dotage and my grandchildren had a good education. I’d be happy to contribute to make the country we live in a better place, where the police had the resources to do their jobs and where everyone gave a thought to the less well off, the displaced and the mentally ill..

Gill, there will never be a Corbyn government. One of the young uns will make a move ( please God)

MaizieD: Governments cannot run out of money.

Please explain. I was under the impression that the UK national debt is somewhere in the region of £1.8 trillion. This surely implies that they ran out of money a long time ago.

Thatcher and her 'no such thing as society' was the start of the rot, and has brought us to where we are today. Austerity was used by Osborne and Cameron to justify Tory policies of reducing public services and cutting them to the bone. Anyone who uses the NHS or drives on pothole ridden roads or has children/grandchildren being educated in state schools has seen what austerity has done. I agree that previously some areas of public services were possible overstaffed and a bit bloated, but we have gone far too far the other way now and I see that today yet another (Tory run) local authority has issued a warning of impending crisis due to serious shortfall in the grant from central funding. I used to wonder about what would happen with a Corbyn government, even worry about it, but quite frankly, it couldn't be any worse. Like oldbatty said, we have become a society motivated by greed and fear, and I would add ignorance to that too.

OK, I don't know much about economics. I tried to study it once. People are terrified and hanging onto what they've got. Thatcher was right about no such thing as society. A move from a collective society to individuals motivated by greed and fear.

Of course they can, oldbatty. They just have to spend some money where it is needed. It's a perfectly respectable Keynesian solution (not, as the tories would have us believe, a mad Labour idea). Putting money into the economy increases everyone's economic activity and increases returns to the Treasury. It's such a no brainer I cannot believe how anyone can be so blinded by the 'household budget' myth. We (i,e the givernment) don't need to scrimp and save, we need to spend in the 'real' economy (i.e. Not give all the extra money to the already wealthy to inflate asset prices with).

And we need to be better at recovering tax from the wealthy and from global companies who hide their taxable incomes from us.

Maizie, I agree with what you say. I volunteer with people who are a million miles away from the affluent lives we lead.
I can tell you first hand, people and children are going hungry.

However, can any political party improve this dire situation? I just don't know.

Left will spend spend spend and bankrupt us again, they do it every time and the next government has to pick up the pieces and take the blame for so called austerity.

I could, Marieeliz, post graphs, statistics, blogs, academic papers etc. etc. which would tell you that that statement is just not true, that, over all, Labour's economic record is much better than the tory's, but I suspect you, like some other posters on Gnet, are so wedded to the lie you've been fed over the years that it would be a complete waste of time.

I would ask you what on earth you mean by 'so called austerity' ? What do you call it? Rolling in riches? All the cutbacks in public services, growing use of foodbanks etc. are an illusion?

The 'man in the street' is already paying for tory austerity; he's paying with increased exposure to crime, overstretched health services (note complaints on Gnet of problems with GP & hospital appointments?), schools desperately short of resources, a punitive welfare system, increased indebtedness, zero hours job contracts (did you ever learn or hear about the dock workers in the 1930s depression era who would queue at the docks every morning desperately hoping to get taken on for whatever work was available so that they could afford to live for another day; no work meant no money. We thought those dreadful days were in the past, but no, here they are again), lowered life expectancy (did you even know that life expectancy in the UK has fallen?). I'm sure others could add to this list...

How could Labour do any worse?

Theresa May took on the Brexit poisoned chalice, let nobody forget it is not her that accepts or rejects any " deal" that the EU agrees to, it is PARLIAMENT , she is highly unlikely to have a majority.
If the deal is rejected, we will be leaving the EU, a hard Brexit by any other name and another round of negotiations will begin. They will define how we leave and it is in everybody's interest to have a transition period, so hopefully will be carried out in a spirit of cooperation that we have not seen so far.
Theresa May I think will stay as PM there may be a challenge, to what point, we are leaving, its just a question of smoothing the way and in a couple of years we will be sailing our own ship again.

Left will spend spend spend and bankrupt us again, they do it every time and the next government has to pick up the pieces and take the blame for so called austerity.

If Corbyn gets in, of course, everything will be perfect. Some one has to pay and it will be the man in the street.

The NHS is NEVER going to satisfy demand because technology keeps on finding new expensive ways of extending or improving life. If the budget was doubled it would not be enough and that's not going to happen under any government.
The admin and record keeping that is done these days is a big millstone, it probably doubles the staff needed to run the NHS, is it all needed - yes to avoid litigation.
Currently over 10% of the NHS budget is reserved for negligence claims and rising fast, but it is run by human beings and they make mistakes so that's not going to change.
One of my daughters is a Midwife, she has a script that has to be followed, not a word out of place or even a gesture you follow the book regardless of individual circumstances. Even one word out of place can result in a claim and some clients record what is said in the delivery room. An uncomplicated delivery costs £4-5000 in the UK, in migrant women now have to pay that, in the US it is at least 5 times that and any extra treatment is charged, complications can make you bankrupt!. Despite the cost infant mortality is about 60% higher in the US, probably due to poor women not having insurance and getting minimal care.
That is just one sector all other treatments are similar more cash would certainly be beneficial but we already get better service that almost all other nations.

The 'billions we pumped into Brussels' have already been accounted for for the next few years, Day6, what with the £60 billion of QE pumped in the economy to save the pound after the referendum, the cost of leaving and the money to be paid to the EU to cover our ongoing obligations. Not to mention the reduction in growth over the past 2 years. There is no 'Brexit bonus' available for the NHS.

If the UK ever regains its prosperity after Brexit, by the time it does the NHS as it exists now will be a memory and unsaveable.

BTW. The Blair government was in no way socialist, everyone knows that, though it was rather more caring about ordinary people than the subsequent tory governments; privatisations driven by the Blair government are as much to be deplored as tory driven ones.

And if people think that leaving the EU is going to do anything for the NHS they are living in LaLa land. It'll be sold off to the highest bidder

That is left wing scare mongering and a cry as old as the hills. It's what stokes socialist fires Maizie and you know it. You use the NHS's fate to frighten the gullible. So predictable.

It's a phrase bandied about by left wingers all the time and ironic given Labour's Tony Blair was in cahoots regarding the privatisation of the NHS and was in agreement when in office for NHS services to be tendered out.

All of us are guardians of the NHS including May who has already promised 20 billion a year extra for the NHS by 2023. (The NHS should be a cross party concern by now, not one which will be 'saved or destroyed' - same old same old - by whichever political party happens to be using it as a campaign tool.))

Yes, I have read all the arguments about it needing even more but we all know if Corbyn was promising that much more the worker and taxpayer would be funding most of it, and for all his other grandiose plans too.

The NHS does need streamlining and I feel sure that there is wastage and probably misuse of funds and budgets. It's that sort of low level corruption at administrative level and drain on the service I'd like to see stamped out but for now, some of the billions we used to give Brussels every year will be pumped into the NHS and that is a step in the right direction. Bring it on.

Good post Jane10 and also Day6 Yes, money needed for the NHS has been going on for so long now I can't remember a time when it was 'fully funded'. Increases in population and procedures offered and research has been going up and up.

If people think all the ills of the NHS will be cured because Corbyn's chancellor holds the purse strings (if he is ever elected) then they are fooling themselves, massively.

And if people think that leaving the EU is going to do anything for the NHS they are living in LaLa land. It'll be sold off to the highest bidder...

Liam Byrne on leaving office left a one-line letter,' in which he told the 'then-chief secretary to the Treasury: "I'm afraid there is no money", and signed off wishing him "good luck!"'

It was a JOKE, Lilyflower, a bloody joke. He was not the first person to have left a similar message to his successor from the opposing party.

Governments cannot run out of money. They don't even need to borrow money. They can just create it. Where do you think all that quantitative easing (about £400billion) came from over the years?

National budgets are not like household budgets; it is a myth that they are but a very convenient one for governments as they can con swathes of the population into believing that they need to economise on public services.

The NHS has been underfunded for a lot longer than 10 years. I worked in it for more than 30 years and don't ever remember a golden time when it was well funded!!

Well said Jane10. There are so many reasons why the NHS struggles and one of them is demand. I too cannot remember when all was well with the NHS, when the budget for the NHS was't discussed at length every election time.

It is a political football and always has been. The NHS is dear to our hearts, a precious institution and no government in my lifetime has been able to say "all is well" and it's coping just fine. It's been ticking over for some time but the strain placed upon it in recent years because of numbers using it and the enormous amount of procedures it undertakes, is rocking it.

If people think all the ills of the NHS will be cured because Corbyn's chancellor holds the purse strings (if he is ever elected) then they are fooling themselves, massively.

I agree with sluttygran about Jeremy Corbyn. I find him reasonable, honest and a breath of fresh air. The right wing press have done their best to destroy him. I asmit my view is not popular but in my view he qoulx be a huge improvement on T May and the rest of the shambolic tories.