Call off the dogs Corbyn

Oh dear
Did you not understand what I meant MaizieD?

We've been told often enough on here not to believe anything we read in the msm, so perhaps not

In which case, Jalima, how does one form an opinion or make a judgement on anything at all?

Where do we get our knowledge from?

Ditto trisher please.

Or I could write something.

He is very earnest
He makes nice jam, so I'm told
He grows good veg
He rides a bike and always wears a helmet (good role model)
He's not too clothes conscious (not so scruffy now, another positive)
He means well

Annie if you could post any links to MSM articles in praise of Corbyn I would love to see them.

Quite simple, if praise of Corbyn is reported it’s true, if critcism is reported , untrue

The print media are reporting this too, lemon. Or don't you believe them either?
We've been told often enough on here not to believe anything we read in the msm, so perhaps not?

Who now are the dogs?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/17/labour-nec-braced-for-row-over-leadership-election-proposals

Can’t believe all we read on the internet.....!

The print media are reporting this too, lemon. Or don't you believe them either?

It has been shown over the years that printing money and taxing does not work, It was the Blair/Brown years that caused the mess we are still paying for.

I'm afraid that's not true, either. 'Printing money' is only damaging if it leads to high inflation. If you look at historical inflation rates you will find that from 1997 - 2010, when Labour was in government, inflation was no different from that under the previous tory government. In fact, if you look at the period 1979 - 1997 when the tories were in power you'll see that inflation was higher during that period.

www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/great-britain/historic-inflation/cpi-inflation-great-britain.aspx

The tories made a great song and dance about the national debt when they came to power in 2010 but if you look at how it has increased over the years you will see that it has actually rocketed upwards since 2010

A chart can be found on this page:
www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

However, 'national debt' is not a particularly key issue. The concept of the country borrowing money is rooted in the days when our currency was backed by gold. The amount which could be issued was limited by the amount of gold reserves we held. But that concept was discarded in the early 1970s; nothing 'backs' the value of our currency any more. Its 'value' internationally is determined by its value against other currencies. This is important when it comes to trading globally but within the UK, apart from a low valuation of the pound making imported goods more expensive, it has very little effect.

The tories also made a big song and dance about the 'deficit'; which is the difference between government spending and government 'income'. Their solution was to cut government spending. This suited them fine because tories hate government spending. They've certainly cut the deficit but at a huge cost in lost jobs and failed
and businesses because there is less money in the economy. Not to mention a big increase in people living in poverty, 14 million is the latest estimate. Take your pick from the reports on this figure:

duckduckgo.com/?q=People+living+in+poverty+in+UK&atb=v128-7__&ia=web

lemon - I have no idea who or what to believe at the moment.

It is not jus the UK which seems to be in a period of political unrest, Americans elected Trump because they were fed up with career politicians. Countries within the EU have had surprising election results this year.

I think we need a strong coalition government, all parties involved.

Making NHS and Education cross party would bring some consistency.

Can’t believe all we read on the internet.....!

Ah now who will the Tories blame for this one then?

They are looking grime GrannyGravy , gulp

Anniebach I have just seen that on the internet, things are not looking that good at the moment - understatement!!!

The note was a joke, many out going ministers staff leave notes, sadly the tories chose to make that one note public.

Gordon Brown has warned there is another financial crisis looming.

Iam64, thank you for the information re 'the note' I was not aware that it was a standing joke, as my interest in politics is a fairly recent one (10 years).

Oh give it a rest grannyGravy13, the note on the treasury desk was meant to be a joke. It's part of a long lasting tradition in the department. It's been very cleverly exploited but it's time to stop believing that the Labour government caused the financial crisis.

The last Labour Government left a note on the treasury desk, saying that there was no money left!!

Do you really want to bring the lower paid back into paying more taxes, or is it just a case of tax the rich. If so they will leave the UK, no government so far has had the inclination to close all tax loop holes, as MP's from both parties use them.

It has been shown over the years that printing money and taxing does not work, It was the Blair/Brown years that caused the mess we are still paying for.

Surely it is not in the country's best interest to spend, spend spend MaizieD.

Why not, GrannyGravy?

We live in a capitalist society rooted in consumerism. Our economy depends on people spending. Governments with sovereign currency (i.e they are completely in control of their currency) cannot run out of money.

The danger with issuing unlimited money is inflation. If there are not enough goods and services for everyone to buy prices increase because traders sell at a price the market will bear. A feckless government which just increased the money supply to cover inflation would soon end up in trouble. But so long as it keeps a grip on inflation by taxing back 'surplus' money it will be fine.

Government spending isn't pouring money down a black hole. It creates wealth. It employs people directly and buys goods and services from private enterprises. The wages of those it directly employs are spent on goods and services.
The enterprises supplying these goods and services increase their profits so can pay more staff or pay their staff more; staff who then spend their money on goods and services. and so it goes on.

As just about every transaction is taxed the greatest part of every pound that is put into the economy (not squirreled away in tax havens) the government eventually gets back via taxation.

What is there about that cycle of spend and tax which is not in the country's interest?

GrannyGravy13, Quote [As for Grandad wanting to see the end of "gig economy" and zero hours contracts, as has been stated previously on this thread, some people like this way of working it gives them flexibility.]End Quote

GrannyGravy13, one in five people in Britain now work in the Gig Economy. Those workers (supposedly self-employed) are tied by contract to a single company and in that receive, no basic hours, no holiday entitlement or holiday pay, no sick pay and very often are on no basic guaranteed basic hourly rate of pay.

Virtually no one wishes to exist on the above terms or should it be said lack of any employment terms.

Zero hours contracts do suit some workers who need flexibility in their lives. However, many employers issue these contracts to employees with a clause that prevents them from being employed by any other company

The above means that an employee can wait for the phone to ring each and every day but be offered no hours of work and therefore pay, while not being able to work for anyone else.

Is the above how we wish to see UK workers "EXIST". I believe not for it is not good for other employers who do not wish to engage in the Gig Economy as they are at a competitive disadvantage.

It is not good for the UK economy as these workers have so very little to spend.

It is not good for low skill employment terms in general as ever more employers have to engage in the Gig Economy or Zero hours contracts to maintain there competitiveness

The above brings about what is known as "The Race To The Bottom" as ever lower terms are applied to such work.

The above is the world of work in 2018 for many.

I agree * GrannyG* unlimited money wanted for the NHS schools, etc etc.which already do get huge amounts.
They may well need more, but how long is a piece of string?
Taxes will have to go up, and then there will be moans all round.
The government doesn’t have any money, it’s all our
Money, which people seem to forget, and managing that money is no easy task if you want to avoid inflation.

An excellent appraisal MaizieD in your above post @ 17:38 today. Governments have printed and pumped five hundred and fifty billion into the UK economy to elevate the effects of the 2008 banking crisis

To elevate the effects of the crisis?
Surely they were bad enough?
.

Surely it is not in the country's best interest to spend, spend spend MaizieD.

I appreciate that quantative easing was used for the banking crisis, it it is not a panacea for all. It is just not logical to do so.

As for Grandad wanting to see the end of "gig economy" and zero hours contracts, as has been stated previously on this thread, some people like this way of working it gives them flexibility.

Low interests rates have contributed to the rise in house prices, and has also put many elderly folk who rely on interest on their savings for their every day needs in difficulty.

I bought my first house with an interest rate of 18percent, that seems unbelievable to any one under 35.

We live in an age of "we want it and we want it now" Which unfortunately I hear similar "wants" from the left of our politicians.

Maizie teachers wouldn’t thank you for adding that requirement to the curriculum ( your last sentence.)

Maybe they wouldn't, lemon, but responsible participating voting citizens should have some idea of how the economy and the government works. They aren't going to learn from anywhere else.

Where do interest rates come into the equation MaizieD?

Interest rates are used (in the 'everyday' economy) to control inflation and deflation. If they're high they encourage saving (taking money out of the economy), low, they encourage spending (putting money into the economy).

Of course, for speculators in the financial markets they have other uses but for us ordinary souls that's their main effects.

Of course, low rates encourage borrowing and that seems to be something of a problem now. There's so much personal debt in the economy that an interest rate rise would ruin a great many people. But inflation is rising - how is that to be controlled?

One of the main causes of the 2008 financial crash was too much borrowing and the resultant selling on of 'packages' of bad debts...