Woman - a word that needs to be redefined?

Ok, I must have found the ultimate example of where all this madness can lead.

The MoS last Sunday had a story of a male bank director who has been included in a list of Britain's top 100 female executives, simply because he describes himself as 'gender fluid'. He is married with 2 children.

Some days he goes to work in a man's suit, and he's Philip. Other days he is in a dress, long wig and high heels and likes to be called Pippa!

So, because he likes to dress as a woman at work some days, he has been put up for this woman's award!

Honestly, words fail me.

I would imagine the law defines what that means, since its a one of the conditions for being granted legal status as female, I think?

Those opposed to the poster want all thresholds re what defines a woman removed. Not only that but they want us to not define ourselves as women due to biology.

Just watched both videos.

It would be so good if Noel Edmunds popped up at some point with a ’gotcha’ for us. Surely it’s time for a bit of sense.

IMO a man is a man until he’s had all his bits chopped off and is stuffed with hormones. Even then he isn’t a woman like me. A woman also needs to be stuffed with hormones and ( not sure about the rest) if she wants to identify as a man.
Anything else is just pretend isn’t it? Sort of transgender light.

Jennifer Eccles Pip hasn't just been put up for an award, he has been given an award as a 'female' executive who has contributed to the advancement of women in business.
So has another man, Nicci Take.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/slip-on-a-frock-chaps-and-be-a-top-100-woman-scxl3qtqj

A man to women trans is not a women.

A women to man trans is not a man.

They are acting as, with their bodies pumped full of hormones for the rest of their lives.

At my GC primary school at C changed its gender for a school year only to revert to original gender the following school year.

Self identification is a ridiculous idea, I have signed the petition against it.

Why are so many people afraid, bordering on hysteria- about those who choose to be different?

I am a woman, never had any doubt about my identity, and a man's woman always - despite being a bit of a tom boy as a kid (due possibly to having older brothers) ... and I just don't understand who anyone can have doubts, or feel 'wrong' - but it is none of my business- and will support any relative or friend, anyone - who is suffering and wants to change- and they certainly do not scare or disgust me...

We have many gay friends and relatives, 2 trans friends and one who has left it too late to go ahead with surgery - our door is opened, always. What is it to you?

I don't think anyone on here has indicated that they are scared of trans, nor disgusted by them. The point being made is that they clearly need psychiatric help if they feel they are in the wrong body, not surgery.

Far as I am concerned anyone can be who they want to be, that isn’t the issue. The issue is “woman” being re-defined. What right does anyone have to do that?

I have always been certain I was ‘a girl’, as I thought of it, but do understand that for some people it is more complicated.

Who are you to decide of that JenniferEccles?

Do you also believe gays can be 'cured'? by psychiatry or drugs?

jura this is nothing to do with gay people! I have no problem with people dressing how they choose. I do object to having a man dressed as a man in a female changing room as he/she identifies as being female. My question is, how do I know in this changing room with my two granddaughters that this male looking person, is really someone who wants to be a female and not someone who just wants to look at my granddaughters. There has been a recent case in the press about a man who had raped and attacked many women decided to walk in his front door as a man then come out again dressed as a woman with a wig. When sentenced for his attacks on women he was sent to a women's jail because he 'identified' as a woman. What was the first thing he did - attack another woman. It is all very well to say trans people can feel at threat what about women born as women.
Don't get me wrong, I have every sympathy with those who feel they have been born in the wrong body but I don't think that someone should be allowed to access a male/female only area just because they "say" they identify as a certain sex. I think there should be more to it than that for the safety of all concerned.

Perhaps we could look at it the other way round - and say that clearly defining 'woman' and 'man' - perhaps by religion, including Christianity - has always been far too defined for reality?

How does it affect you, personally, if you are neither 'scared' nor 'disgusted'? It does not affect me at all btw.

Cherrytree59...I agree completely

How will you react if one of your grandchildren is gay, or has gender 'issues', that are long term confirmed and not just a teenage phase?

Now I hope it does not happen to me - but I hope I'd find it in my heart to try and understand, and continue to love them and include them in my life - just as we have with friends and family.

Live and let live is good. I accept my trans friend's right to transition and live as he (now she) wishes. But I can also see her underlying distress. Every walk out of the door is an act of bravery because she looks odd. Every day involves brazening it out. Very stressful. I feel for her.

I am happy to accept that some people wish to make choices on this issue that are hard for many to understand, as it is so far outside their experiences. But some things do concern me:
- the fact that this has quite suddenly become a "thing" - a very big thing - and how this might impact on children and adolescents struggling to find who they are in this world. What was once seen as a phase, now becomes the thing to do - and I would hate to see young people finish up as my friend is. Socially dislocated.
- the idea that choosing to identify as a different gender brings with it the rights of someone born into that gender - e.g. use of women's facilities. It does not surprise me at all that this causes concern. I do not think that a person with a penis should be in women's only places.

This is not bigotry - it is a genuine concern that fear of being labelled small-minded might lead us to cause children and young people distress or be the source of harm or upset in women only facilities.

Unless some parameters and safeguards are in place around the idea of self-identification then potential for harm does exist. Someone who is a sexual predator is being given an opportunity that should not be there for him.

jura I do not see people being gay as the same issue at all. Why do you keep mentioning gay people? I have no issue with gay people. I have no issue with people wanted to dress/act or be another sex. I have an issue with knowing if someone who says they identify as female are really truthful. If they are that's fine I am concerned that someone uses that excuse to get access to children.
As far as I'm aware gay people (that I know anyway) are not wanting to be a different sex just want to be with people of the same sex. That is not the same thing at all.
If my grandchildren had or have gender issues I would of course support them 100%. I have no problem with people who wish to be a different sex but how do we protect women and children from those who are lying to gain access as in the case I mentioned.

I think that it's different from that, too, jura.

I think the problem is with men claiming to be women and invading women's spaces for dubious motives, and men claiming to be women, then claiming to speak for women. We have enough of a problem with 'mansplaining' without men doing it in the guise of being a 'woman

luckygirl your post expresses my thoughts much better.

I worry about teens who are still 'finding themselves' for want of a better phrase.
There is such a vast array of options for them to sort out in their heads.
I sound like a real old fuddy duddy, I know.

Yes, good post luckygirl- I get you totally.

One trans friend made the choice very young- and you would never ever know. The other waited until her mid 50s- and yes, she does look odd, tall, big hand and feet, and 'wrong' voice - and she is often insulted and called a freak. But she knew that was likely to happen - and at the end of the day- it was her choice, and we support her best we can.

Is there any real evidence of infiltration- and case of rape, attacks by trans people? Surely, the vast majority of rape is by people known to the victim, and man to woman. The trans I know are very gentle, and no danger to anyone.

Miss Adventure, fuddy duddy or not, I agree. It is the most confusing of times for teenagers.

Is there any real evidence of infiltration- and case of rape, attacks by trans people?

Not 'rape' and probably not involving 'trans' people but enough to be worried about. A page of search results

duckduckgo.com/?q=sexual+assault+by+a+transexual&atb=v128-7__&ia=web

Jura I don't think anyone suggested it is the genuine trans people who rape or attack at all. I can see no reason for that to happen. I am talking about people who pretend to be trans to get access to women's only places like the man mentioned in my post who pretended to identify as a woman. He got access to a womens jail even though he had already raped many women. I think what I am asking is how can we tell those who genuinely want to be women from those who are using it as a ploy.

How can you say you are supportive if gay people without being angry that lesbians are told they are not allowed to define their sexuality as being attracted to females and not people with penises??

Why is it difficult to understand that predatory men will see self-declaration of gender as being a wide open door for them to get access to women and girls?

The proposal from the government is that self-id can be granted to people who say that they intend to undergo a procedure to re-assign their sex. No other safeguard than their word. No follow-up.

It is already difficult to find evidence of crimes committed by transgender individuals, since the crimes are recorded as the gender of their choice.

No-one in authority is keeping any record of crimes committed by transwomen or transmen, separately from those of males and females.

On Facebook, you can see a group called This Never Happens and here is a website detailing many crimes by trans people in the UK.

transcrimeuk.com