The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

Do you know, Annie, I think you could start an argument in an empty room containing no-one but yourself.

All the way through this you've just picked out random words and made a fuss about them, completely ignoring what the poster is actually saying.

Maizie, you referred to ‘betters’. The voter has a vote , if they wish to be part of a government they can do so as an MP .

It's very sad that a Labour supporter doesn't think that people who work for companies, businesses etc are fit to share in the government of their country.

How sad to think one has ‘betters’

Oh don't be daft, Annie. I don't think that at all and you ought to have gathered that from what I post.

How sad to think one has ‘betters’

Some closet Tory posts on this forum get more and more bizarre.

I doubt that anyone ( apart from on GN ) says ‘betters’ these days.

Really? I was brought up to know ‘ I am better than no man and no man is better than me ‘

Anniebach union membership has dropped because of the Gig Economy in the main. That system which you refuse to condemn makes it virtually impossible for them to recruit in that sector.

However, they are still nearly seven million strong despite all the legislation that has been thrown against them by successive Tory governments.

It should also be remembered, no trades unions, no Labour party. However, as a closet Tory anniebach, I would imagine you would not be to upset about that in reality.

The ‘workers’ vote in the polling booth do they not?

For parties run by their 'betters'?

And why is union membership dropping ?

The ‘workers’ vote in the polling booth do they not?

Anniebach, I have never referred to the Aberfan disaster as "an event". As I have stated before if you have evidence that I have please bring it forward so all can see.

I also find it disgusting that you keep raising the Aberfan disaster to try to make political points in any number of discussions of recent. In that you besmirch the memory of those children that you constantly proclaim you hold so dear.

Makes one wonder?

Do you not agree then about the miners' strike? The lads I knew in Doncaster were clear about what they were fighting for. And I had to defend them against my southern friends and family who thought they were just after more money.

I'll just ask you why you don't think that 'the workers' should be part of government? Do we just have to leave it to our 'natural leaders', the traditional ruling classes?

Maizie, there was a thread ‘Lord Robens’ , please don’t tell me it was only one Union. I support unions, I do not support unions controlling government . I have no interest in what grandad1943 has to say since he referred to that disaster as ‘an event which took place 50 years ago’ and claimed the health and safety act was a tribute to those children, codswallop, we wanted justice and it was denied because the unionS protected Robens.

As for the miners strike, please, you are telling the daughter, g granddaughter, g g granddaughter, niece, cousin of coalminers about the strike

Annie. I understand that the Aberfan disaster has caused you, and others, a lifelong trauma. Even just reading about it makes me wonder how anyone involved could in any way ever come to terms with it.

But I think you are being unfair.The unions did not cause it and the unions didn't behave badly after it. The NUM was just one union out of many in the UK. To implicate all unions and wish them all ill is not reasonable.

The union unrest in the 70s was caused by a number of factors; among them being a deep division between workers and management and rampant inflation causing their members wages to fall behind. Yes, and some greed and bloodymindedness. But it wasn't all 'pay and conditions'; I was living in Doncaster during the Miners' strike and those lads were fighting for their livelihoods.

But the history of unionism is the attempt to get better pay and conditions for working people. If 'management' is unwilling to treat workers fairly and give them a fair share of the wealth that their labour has created what means do they have to work with apart from withdrawing their labour? If we had no unions what would we put in their place?

And, as Grandad said, unions were at the heart of formation of the Labour party. The Liberal Party fell away because they were a well intentioned middle class elite who were doing things '(however worthy) to' people; Labour's appeal was that it was 'the people' doing things for working people.

Well, that's how I see it, anyway.

Forgot to add the list of achievements by the Blair government , they paid back the money taken from an appeal fund plus the interest lost over 25 years

Anything done to the Unions is ..karma for the harm they did to this country in the seventies and eighties and the wickness they did to my village . If Corbyn wins the next election the unions will again run the country. They excel at bringing down governments

notanan, I am now called a Tory because I will not vote for Corbyn.

I've just looked up Blair's original constituency, Sedgefield.
Which now includes Spennymoor and Trimdon Colliery, old mining villages where I worked as a supply teacher in my youth.
Blair had a house in Trimdon Colliery.
Very different from his current home.

And the NHS and social care was CRIPPLED by slap dash spending on pipe dream projects that were abandoned and replaced with a new big spend project every few months...
Setting the NHS up to fail. Making it look unsustainable.

There were committees to set up committees to set up committees.
It was a FARCE. So much money wasted. They turned the NHS into a joke when they had the reins.

Annie, I voted for Blair
I wont vote for Corbyn.

Dont asssume that those of us who are criticising Corbyns labour are "anti labour" traditionally

The Blair government also brought in the minimum wage, paternity leave, winter fuel allowance, introduced civil partnerships, banned fur farming and cosmetic trials on animals, free eye tests for over sixties, free nursery places for 3 and 4 year olds, introduced the equalities and human rights commission, wrote off up to 100% debt owed by the poorest countries, brought in 24 days holidays for workers.
And much more

And they are criticised by the alleged ‘ socialists i am not a militant’ group here.

I am not arguing policies. I am just saying that this is what is happening. As MaizieD, says there are two sides to the argument.

Grandpa43 , you are arguing just like the Soviets did before all the show trials.

MaizieD, there is much I can agree with in your above post, but I feel that it is the Banking crisis, the Iraq war, Blair's treatment of the trade unions that will be remembered as the legacy of those twelve years in office.

The above are happenings that never should have come about under any true socialist government and demonstrate the problem any centre left administration has in regard to affiliating that position with its ideological roots.

As evidence to the above, those trade unions gave me along with many thousands of others a lift in my education and specialised training that could not be found elsewhere. However, the Blair government gave them nothing despite the fact that those unions loyalty paid the vast majority of the labour parties bills throughout those years.

That is why I am pleased that the Labour movement as a whole now again has true socialist policies. Those policies should remain in place even if they do not draw majority support at the next General Election, for they are the core of the Labour movements being and in that they should always be on offer to the electorate whenever right wing and centre governments fail.