The Nasty Labour Party - what they really stand for.

It is not snobbery - it is reality. All the analyses of the Brexit vote that I have read talk about the vast swathe of disadvantaged people who saw it as an opportunity to give a bloody nose to those who care not one jot about them or their needs.

There is nothing wrong with being a grocer's daughter - so no snobbery there, unless you care to read it as such - but the fallacy she brought to her job that national economies equate to domestic budgets is haunting us still.

Building ( certainly in England) is underway on a massive scale btw.

lemongrove I think you are talking to the proverbial brick wall!!!

As a small business owner, and employer I shudder at the thought of Corbyn, McDonnel and Abbott running the country. It is ridiculous to think that throwing money at something is the solution!!!

....and more snobbery from you in your final paragragh,
‘Dissatisfied underclass’ indeed!

Oh Luckygirl...... really ? ‘The grocer’s daughter’ ?!
what are you, the daughter of an Earl? Such contemptous snobbery, am very surprised at you.

Sometimes I almost wish we did have Corbyn as PM and McDonnell as Chancellor for a few years then some on here
Would truly see the mess caused by excessive borrowing and spending from those who would always clobber business, the very people who create the wealth for the country in the first place.

They are so wedded to the myth that a national economy can be run like a household economy that they can be conned into voting for the party which shouts loudest about debt and deficit and 'the need to cut expenditure' when in fact 'cuts' make no economic sense whatsoever.

Exactly so MaizieD - I suspect the grocer's daughter peddled this fantasy. In the context of our current situation we need to borrow and spend (shock/ horror!) on infrastructure, houses, roads, rail, etc. That would create jobs (and spending power to stimulate the economy), relieve social stagnation, and create homes and infrastructure that benefits the country economically.

If this had been government policy, the chances of a Brexit vote going through would have been highly unlikely - the dissatisfied "underclass" of people who have been overlooked and sidelined would have been smaller.

Derek Hatton has claimed he is now Labour Party member after being expelled from the party 33 years ago after setting an illegal council budget.

The Labour Party has said he is not a member but have found no reason to reject his application.

I am sure they haven’t, he was and is a left wing militant who has become very wealthy in the 33 years making money out of property dealings

I have been catergorised as a Tory

Not by me, Annie

And if you don't vote at all that's fine. Your choice again.

You assume if and how I vote Maizie

I have been catergorised as a Tory ,

I'm not 'of the far left', Annie. I really wish you'd all stop categorising people. (And I'm not intending to spend wearisome hours defending that statement)

Your choice, vote to be made poorer; it's fine by me.

Maizie, even more unable to trust, who with Corbyn put forward the manifesto.

.you like others of the far left will not accept I am a Labour Party member who has no trust in Corbyn and his inner team , no idea what the msn is like to sit and have a chat with, I do not bother with press critcism , i do not trust him .

A couple of years ago I would have suggested that Parliament would be able to check policy excesses but current experience has made me less confident...

As I've always understood it, Annie it's the party's manifesto with input from more than one person.

Leave personalities aside for a moment and look at it objectively. Why would one vote to be made poorer and lose vital public services just because one didn't like a party leader?

Pointless question in my opinion, one would have to have trust in the leader who puts forward a manifesto

Many people see that the political and financial status quo is damaging and creates very serious problems. .................. - we need communities, workers, ordinary people to take charge and ensure the wealth of this country goes to its people and not into offshore funds.

I agree with this, too but I think that until 'the people' become more economics literate it will not happen. They are so wedded to the myth that a national economy can be run like a household economy that they can be conned into voting for the party which shouts loudest about debt and deficit and 'the need to cut expenditure' when in fact 'cuts' make no economic sense whatsoever.

The Labour party has a better grasp of this than do the tories , as evidenced by the link I posted to their video earlier today, but they haven't completely abandoned the 'cuts' myth because it's electorally unsafe to do so.

Why they didn't defend their handling of the economy more vigorously in 2010, 2015 and 2017 is a mystery to me, but I suppose it's because they're only just emerging from the deluded economic consensus of the Thatcher years and beyond.

Sorry to keep banging on about this but economics is at the heart of a country's, and its citizens', wellbeing.

Would those who claim to be 'centrist" care to post some policies they feel show how much they care about things? You see there is a lot of condemnation and rhetoric about how left wingers are constantly deriding others but no actual information about what policies they favour. So if someone is criticising Labour party policies as too left wing, it would be good to know what centrist involves for them.

Cheery though, Boris, Gove, JRM. v. Corbyn, McDonald , Abbott .

Many people see that the political and financial status quo is damaging and creates very serious problems. .................. - we need communities, workers, ordinary people to take charge and ensure the wealth of this country goes to its people and not into offshore funds.

I agree with this - but I am unconvinced that the Labour party - or indeed any party at all - will make this happen. I think they need more credible people in their cabinet to encourage people to vote for them. The Dianne Abbotts of this world just put people off - mind you, the other lot have got Boris and Gove!

Strange, I find trying to talk to Corbynites as pointless as talking to. Brickwall

I am very left wing, but I don't hate the middle classes or the very rich. What I hate is the system that allows so much inequality and so much needless suffering. I want to change this system with as little suffering as possible, but to do that we will need a mass movement to challenge those who are currently running it - possibly through a general strike.

Jeremy Corbyn's supporters see that he (and fellow left-wingers) have galvanised thousands, many of them younger people who previously thought party politics irrelevant.

Many people see that the political and financial status quo is damaging and creates very serious problems. And the Labour Party has the possibility now of carrying forward a program for change - we need communities, workers, ordinary people to take charge and ensure the wealth of this country goes to its people and not into offshore funds.

I'm with Lazigirl, a thread with this title was always going to attraqct anti-JC and current LP rants; sorry I started reading now, won't bother again - the phrase 'talking to a brick wall' comes to mind.

Day6

It's pretty clear that your degree wasn't in History.

I am a member of The Welsh Labour Party, come the election of the new leader of Welsh Labour, only then will I know if I will remain a member .

I am a member of the Labour Party ..Thank you! Green would be the only other option!

Day6 - I have never yet voted Labour in my life.

nigglie - I am not talking about "normal" 16 year olds. I live near the Brecon Beacons and can see how the "duty of care" regularly falls down.

It is so difficult to discuss this rationally - some people with a child in the forces might find my views objectionable - but that is because of the tendency to extrapolate: if lucky is saying that she has concerns about some vulnerable recruits then she must be insulting my child and all the other intelligent young men and women who are in the forces. That is not so. Of course it isn't.