Northern Ireland and Brexit

No jura2 but bloody Nigel Lawson, arch Brexiteer has applied for residency in France where he has second home. As an indication of his merit, he also argued vehemently against climate change measures. Deluded in every way then.

Now, for those 'Paddy passports' - where people are suddenly remembering their long lost relatives and getting their passport via said grandparent, etc.

Increasingly, I hear about people who have firmly voted for Brexit - and yet are now availing themselves of that loophole to avoid the consequences. Does anyone know of such cases- of Brexiters now getting their Paddy Passports?

It is a simple problem in a way; the solution is the hard bit. As a EU citizen, anyone can enter Eire and then travel to NI, as there cannot be a border between NI and the Republic. So, is everyone who does this to be allowed to get on the ferry and come onto the mainland which would be non EU? Are there to be passport checks at the ferry ports? Will Brits be able to wave their blue passports in the air and walk through while all the 'foreigners' get checked? Now that I have put it in very simple terms, I await a reply from Brexiteers, suggesting a solution. Best not hold my breathe though eh?

Great analysis of the Irish border situation in your above post postmuffinthemoo. Regarding that, and as stated, there have been no solutions put forward by the Brexitiers on this forum in all the time this thread has been running. That I believe, demonstrates only too well the weakness of the whole Brexit position.

Outside of the debate on this forum, the Irish government seems to have "woken up" at long last to the fact that their economy has as much to lose as that of the UK in all this Brexit nonsense.

The above I believe could play a crucial role in the next two weeks as the EU Council of Ministers prepares for their meeting on Brexit later this month.

However, in parliament, we still have this Tory government unable to agree among themselves on any aspect of how Brexit should be carried out, and that situation may prevent Britain from achieving any gain from the Irish governments weakened stance.

The border with Ireland is the external border of the EU.

It has to exist in some form. It is not possible to leave a ‘borderless zone’ and ‘take back control of borders’ without defining where the borders actually are.

Take a red pen and draw around the UK on a map. That will be the new external border of the UK.

You can either draw along the current NI/ROI border, or put a line down the Irish Sea. But you have to join the border up somewhere.

The idea that the UK will have some incomplete external border as a fudge to the Irish issue is a complete non starter, because there must be some physical point where the UK ends and the EU begins.

29th of September, so nearly a week, and not a single proposal has come forward, not a single measly one:

Just one question to any Leaver- a simple one.

Please demonstrate a viable solution for the Irish Border.

So, can we know say that this is because .... the obvious .... there is NONE whatosever.

Yes jura2, it is the same as asking how the Brexitiers will achieve their goal of leaving the European Union without having a hard border in Ireland

That I believe is what this thread is supposed to be discussing, but once again no answers seem to be forthcoming

Oh yes, Varian- you would think that would be as obvious...

as asking how they will get back control of all the major utilities that have been sold to EU members, the Chinese, the Russians, etc, etc.

I wish that every time these brexiters say they're going to bring back control of our borders, the interviewer would ask them how that could be possible if there is no border with Ireland.

I entirely agree with your above post muffinthemoo. None of the hardline Brexitiers has come forward with any answers to the Northern Ireland problem either at the Conservative Party Conference, in parliament, or on this forum as they all spout the nonsense that "we should just walk away",

In the above, It is still the same old garbage of " lets all sick our fingers in our ears, our heads in the sand and jump off the cliff together and hope somehow we find a soft landing".

Well, that landing when it comes to Northern Ireland could very much cost lives in that island and here on the mainland of Britain. However, to the Brexitiers that is not something to be considered, its all "pie in the sky, rule Britania", and those that have money in investments move it into European Union countries as there will be more stability there following Brexit, or so states Jacob Rees Mogg.

What a crowd,

The absolute lack of concern shown for the prosperity and safety of the people of Northern Ireland by some of the prominent Leavers leaves me disgusted and in despair.

The future of Northern Ireland is more important than any poorly argued faff about “sovereignty”.

There was a bloody civil war in all but name raging in NI, and the deal that brought peace, increased prosperity in a place ravaged by poverty, and started moving a very divided community forwards is to be binned as if none of that matters.

The NI question is the single most important issue for the Brexit architects to resolve, bar none.

Jura I have just got my Irish passport, long overdue. I had an Irish grandmother and an English grandmother but neither are needed. Born and bred in N. Ireland which automatically entitles me to dual nationality. And now I can still retain my EU citizenship too.

The Irish question was one of my main reasons for voting remain.
I'm disgusted at how long this vital issue, has taken to filter through the Brexit dross and is finally being discussed.
As for the view that the Scots and the Irish should be permitted to leave the UK - that simply shows, if truth be told, that the poster just doesn't give a damn and is entirely taken up with the jingoistic Brexit pro-england approach that is so obvious on this and other threads.

It is in everybody's interest to keep the border open except Boris and his cohorts. When I last returned through Hollyhead I had to show my passport, presumably to prove I was not a Romanian migrant.
In practice it is going to mean some kind of customs union and parliament is not going to like that one bit, let alone the Tory party. The Irish really don't like the prospect of a border its against everything they have been working for over many years.
Its all very well TM repeating "no deal is better than a bad deal" , no deal could be much worse than we imagine, if a Norway deal is all that can be had we really would be better staying. I'm still betting on a second vote.

Any politician who states "that the Good Friday Agreement' is not sacrosanct" for whatever party in the United Kingdom that person represents is not only putting at risk the peace in Northern Ireland but the peace and stability of the whole of Britain.

I believe the Brexit/Irish Border situation is now rapidly approaching the above.

I think,patcaf anyone with any sense can see things need to stay as they are with regards borders between the North and South .Anything else is visiting massive problems on the people of that island .I have strong ties to both sides of the border and I have seen at first hand the sectarian problems that are still there simmering under the surface.I think its probably to much to expect the Westminster clowns will sort it though,they are hellbent on destroying many parts of the UK because of their misguided Brexit...over two years and no solutions to any of the major issues .Couldn't make it up!!

I live in Southern Ireland. No one wants a border as it will be hugely expensive to operate and will cause serious difficulties for business and agriculture.

The idea of uniting Ireland crops up frequently. However the Republic cannot afford the costs of Northern Ireland. NI is subsidised to a massive extent by the UK and the majority of jobs are dependant on UK subsidy. The violence from Unionists would also escalate. Even at the moment, parts of NI are virtually ungovernable and this would only get worse. We all want a united island but not at any cost and the economy of Ireland is still very fragile It has never really recovered from the crash. We are still one of the most indebted countries in the world.

Judthepud2 - did you always have one - or did you have to search for a long lost grandmother to get it ?

A friend from England got hers recently because they have a secondary house in France. 'Where are you from?' they asked 'Londonderry' - he looked at her and quietly said I think we will leave the London out, shall we?'.

Looks like I amy have been right - for once:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/02/brexit-eu-hits-out-irresponsible-uk-northern-ireland?CMP=fb_gu

watch this space ...

And now Arlene is saying that 'the Good Friday Agreement' is not sacrosaint - throwing water into burning oil it will end in tears, methinks- tragically (no hysteria - I use the term wisely and carefully).

No point in asking brexiters for a solution to the Irish border question. There isn't one.

Yep Jura. I have mine!

That's brilliant Jura !

In the meantime, have you got yours:

www.facebook.com/TheIrishPost/videos/10157500737118452/

Churchill was an imperialist, believer in Empire, as were many people of his generation. He certainly toyed with the idea of a United Europe but feared a federation! That's why he he finally concluded that this country should be 'with' Europe, but not 'of' it.