No Deal and supply of medicines

And I have said many a time before why we moved here - to look after my very elderly parents.

As for answering the question Maw- that is the very issue. Brexiters never do, and often make it clear they have no intention whatsoever of doing so. And if people refuse to read or listen to links given by experts- and just make personal attacks - then there can be no discussion and no debate.

That shocking language was used by others re very difficult and complicated issues - which was ... shocking, and yes, really upset me, to the point of re-using it to highlight how despicable and insensitive it is.

I've already said it may not have been the best idea - apologised even - so that answers your question, I believe.

I of course, forgot the 'not' - I did not move to Switzerland to live a life of luxury.

I didn't think harrigran's post was directed at anyone in particular.
And Switzerland is not in the EU anyway.

I did move to Switzerland to live a life of luxury- but to look after my very elderly parents
Hard to argue with! .

1 Harrigran expressed no opinion on Jura - a generalisation which as she said *includes members of her own family.

2 I have no idea why Jura and her DH live in Switzerland other than that it is her homeland (or close to) ,has lovely scenery, is conveniently placed for travel abroad,enjoys an admirable standard of living , a healthy climate and no doubt other reasons.
To accuse Harrigran of meanness of spirit is a bit of a liberty and why Jura is so incensed as to use phrases like “How dare you” is IMO an extreme overreaction.

harrigran a nasty and unworthy comment, and as a long term member of GN you must be aware of why Jura is in Switzerland.

harrigran, my husband gave his whole life to the NHS, and nearly lost his own because of it ...so don't you dare.

I did move to Switzerland to live a life of luxury- but to look after my very elderly parents.

My children, grand-children and so all of our UK family are still there, and most of our friends- as I lived there all my adult life until recently. We will probably return at some point, and have made provisions to do so. I have been British since 1972 (or 3...) and you have no right to invoke my dual nationality. We have no income or pension from Switzerland, and paid into the UK system all our life. So yes, don't you dare.

But those people who did that also gave many many years of work - often in health or education - and also paid taxes etc for 30/40 years.

There was/is a choice of where to live - are you sorry that you did not decide to exercise it?

I am astounded at the level of scaremongering particularly from those who have chosen to live in Europe after having availed themselves of all that the UK had to offer. I include some of my own family.

Jalima

Your link at 11.17 was certainly an interesting point to raise and it did in my opinion make a valid point.

As for the ensuing issue on the wording of a post I think it is a fact that although our points/opinions are obviously written and not spoken face to face we can still make a clear distinction as to the context behind what is written especially when a post is obviously looking so contentious/ combative in attitude. Sometimes I think there are posts that are as clear as glass as to their intention.

The OP has raised a point and it was worthy of discussion it was a pity that to continue to make a point emotive rhetoric was used.

Just looked at the link Jalima and then further on. So the shortage of epipens is global, not just the UK. From what I understand, it's caused by the main ingredient, the unstable drug epinephrine, which has a shelf life of only 18 months, before it starts to degrade.

Another Brexit myth buster.

Next!

I'll keep on mithering:

inews.co.uk/news/health/epipen-shortage-parents-allergies-children/

in the hope that someone, somewhere, who could be affected follows the link

Lazigirl ditto on my tablet - constantly freezing and crashing.

Still not listening or prepared to admit that your behaviour might in any way be at fault are you Jura.
Just banging on and no this is not a personal attack but a considered observation.
In the words of the likes of Jeremy Paxman or John Humphreys - “Answer the question”

I have only just seen this discussion as my iPad has decided it doesn't like Gransnet any more and keeps freezing on this site. It seems to me it isn't possible to have a discussion about the implications of Brexit on here without a great deal of vitriol on both sides. I think it is reasonable for people to be concerned about medicine & treatment shortages, particularly those dependant upon them, but looking at the facts as it stands it seems no one really knows how we will be affected. The regulation and control of medicine appear to be extremely complex, and particularly anything to do with artificial radio isotopes. If the CE of the Pharmaceutical Company and the Royal College of Radioligists did not voice their concerns then I think it would be considered irresponsible. I do not believe this is scaremongering, but live in hope that the Government will come to some agreement that will not put patients at risk as time is getting short.

How can anyone be more blinkered than to say they will not listen or read what the real experts say on the issues:

'No jura, I have no intention of feeding watching any video you post or clicking onto any links that you provide. '

There can be no debate or discussion based on refusal to listen to expert opinion. It has been a huge problem during the campaign, and still now.

Those words were used to shock - and they are truly shocking with regard to the real issues discussed, and should have never been used.

I'd even go so far as to apologise for repeating them to illustrate how shocking and how cruel they are. But many have seen the sheer volume of personal attacks and distortion that has taken place over a few threads- and have seen them for what they are, some sort of bizarre 'vendetta' of sorts.

It is a beautiful day, and I will not let you, maw and co- continue your personal attacks and bullying. They can't be doing you much good either- sadly.

I will reiterate what I said about Epipens because I think it is vitally important.

There is a worldwide shortage; they are manufactured in America. People who carry one have been advised to hold on to it even though it may be past its use-by date because they may not be able to obtain another one for the foreseeable future.

I am sure those who carry one or whose child has to carry one will be aware of this.

Added to which, Switzerland has shortage of many vital drugs at the moment
Shortage of more than 400 key medications in Switzerland increases calls for more domestic stockpiles
Almost 400 medications are currently in short supply in Switzerland. Pharmacists are sounding the alarm.

Surely this is not due to Brexit?

www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/medication-bottleneck-_medicine-shortage-worries-swiss-pharmacists-/44262408

I truly feel you are not listening, Jura.
To be so focused is also to be blinkered.
There is no simpler way of saying what I said already

To the two posters who are supporting you on here jura
I am surmising they are anti Brexit posters, as this can be the only reason behind it.Those posters who think you started the thread for very wrong reasons are mixed, some may be Leave voters, some certainly are not and said they voted Remain in the referendum.
You did say as fact that they ‘will not get their insulin epipens or cancer therapy’.
I and others think to use an emotive subject in this way is terrible.You don’t live in the UK.....we do.

It's called deflection Maw.

did you watch the video and read the links?

And yes, to tell someone that concerns due to the above is akin to 'mithering' and that one should just 'chill' about it - is massively shocking.

One could debate, once video watched, links read, + own research - that it is best to keep quiet and not worry those who would be greatly affected. And, I personally would disagree - as it is important to fight NOW to ensure this does NOT happen - but at least I could agree to disagree, and respect that opinion.

It is not possible to discuss, debate, agree or disagree, or agree to disagree - with people who make comments like the one copied in my post above.

You should perhaps have the courage to go and tell mothers afraid their kid will not get their insulin, epipens or cancer therapy to chill- please do if you are brave enough. shock

How many more times must it be said that it was not the link to factual information and comment which has been at issue, but this crass sentiment, insensitively expressed and clearly designed to shock that many people took objection to.

Chewbacca, the fact I am in Switzerland makes no difference whatsoever. Because I can research the issues from here as well as you can from there- from the Internet, the Press and the BMJ.

As for 'is it fact' and 'not a fear' - how dare you ask the question after writing the following yesterday:

'No jura, I have no intention of feeding watching any video you post or clicking onto any links that you provide. ' If you did, you'd find out that they are very serious concerns from the medical and pharmaceutical experts- not from the top of my head.

will not get their insulin, epipens or cancer therapy

So, Eloethan, that statement is fact is it? Absolute fact? It's not a fear? It's not a possible outcome? It's a fact?

And for the record, I am NOT a "committed leaver".

jura wasn't giving her opinion, she was providing the links to articles which quote organisations and individuals involved in medical matters inwho believe there will be problems re medical supplies and treatments.

Rather than shout her down, claiming she is "sick" for quoting the fears of some oncologists and other medical personnel, why not present evidence that says otherwise? Or is the "stick fingers in ears/close eyes tightly shut/Keep Calm and Carry On" approach the only one that committed leavers can muster?