No Deal and supply of medicines

One of the speakers representing NHS workers at the Fnal Say march said "You can be pro-brexit or pro_NHS but you cannot be both"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPAgNTz3Sow&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2HNEuKzC_93k79kWNNvTk_NWmguoGJVteYzzPidFLXj5BsziWNflwiAlw

Davidhs, the naïvety of your optimism is quite amazing.

Air lifting means we can fly in and out or over EU zones. And if the French decide to blocade, they will.

Just wondering, do you or any of your loved ones need life saving drugs or treatment right now- which are at risk?

Why we voted leave
By JOHNREDWOOD | Published: MARCH 23, 2018
On 23rd June 2016 17.4 million voters told Parliament we should leave the EU.

Leave voters voted to take back control.

We voted to take back control of our money, our laws and our borders.

We voted to be a sovereign people again.

The overarching aim is to restore our freedoms

To become self governing as we used to be

We wish our Parliaments to frame our laws

To levy and spend out taxes

To make our borders safe

To award the precious gift of citizenship to those we choose to invite

We did not vote in the belief that future Parliaments will always be wise

Nor that they will always get it right

We voted to restore powers to Parliament because it is our Parliament

We can lobby and influence it

We can dismiss it and replace the MPs when they no longer please.

I find it surprising that some find it difficult to understand this overriding wish

For it is based on our long standing pursuit of freedom

It springs from our history

The history of the UK is the story of the long march of every man and every woman to the vote

The story of asserting the rule of law against all, however mighty.

We prize the gift of freedom under the law for all on an equal basis

We share an aversion to slavery

A dislike of military rule

A resistance to arbitrary government

A rejection of the patronising errors of elites

A distaste for overmighty bureaucracies cramping our freedoms

A belief that we should be free to do whatever we please unless the laws prevents it

The signposts to democracy run through Magna Carta to the first Parliaments

From the 1660 settlement to the Glorious Revolution

From the Great Reform Act to the triumph of the suffragettes

We carelessly lost some of these freedoms,

casting away much of the power of our vote and voice

by passing powers to the European Union

We allowed the EU to impose laws we did not want

To levy taxes we disagreed with

And to spend our money as they saw fit

Brexit is designed to recall those lost powers

hTtp://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/03/23/why-we-voted-leave/

Certainly medicines can easily be airlifted if needed, there is no problem there, quite a lot of tropical and out of season food is already air freight, many will have noticed it being loaded into returning holiday flights. Bananas from Carribean, Beans from Kenya, Grapes from South Africa.
Staple food, Bread, Meat, Milk are either largely home produced or imported from ROI and I will guarantee producers in Southern Ireland will want that to keep that moving. In a no deal scenario there will be some disruption of food that arrives on truck via Dover, so if you want Lettuce,Tomatoes or Aubergines in January you may well be disappointed.
So let's have no scaremongering, we are not going to starve, there are not UBoats sinking shipping, no blockade, essential supplies will get priority. I'm more concerned by the affect on jobs disruption will likely cause layoffs in many industries because their supplies don't arrive, you can't make cars without widgets.

To go back to an earlier point, about insulin.
There's a report in today's Guardian saying that there's a worldwide shortage of insulin. mainly due to the increase of type 2 diabetes, related to obesity.
Demand is exceeding supply.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/20/insulin-shortage-could-affect-40-million-people-with-type-2-diabetes

You have made a very good point Fennel

Our media, especially the tabloid press, do not serve us well. They love confrontation, hate collaboration and are always looking to stoke the fires of division.

I see what you're saying Mazie but surely all of those possibilities would add to the disruption and uncertainty.

I agree Fennel there's been a lot of melodramatic rhetoric of late.

"I've changed my views on this because I think the disastrous influence of the Ultras is waning."
I've often thought that this has been deliberately emphasised by the media to make it all more dramatic.
What would they have done without it? It helps to sell papers etc.

I don't think that would happen smileless. I think that we'd have a GE or a People's Vote and the EU would give us an E50 extension. I've changed my views on this because I think the disastrous influence of the Ultras is waning.

I agree that there'll be disruption but wont the worse thing be the certainty that we'll leave with no deal Mazie.

There's going to be uncertainty and disruption when parliament votes down May's 'deal', an event that is looking more than likely.

Well I can't think of anything that would bring about more uncertainty and disruption, than the length of time it would take to organise another peoples' vote.

The biggest cause of uncertainty and disruption IMO is whether or not TM can get this deal through, whether she'll be ousted by those self serving idiots who have nothing to offer and whether we'll end up with a GE.

Think uncertainty and disruption; think JC.

Labour MP Paul Williams and Conservative MP Sarah Woolaston on why, as clinicians in Parliament, they want a People’s Vote

"There is no version of Brexit which will benefit the NHS, social care, public health or our life sciences sector, only varying degrees of harm. This, together with the wider economic fallout from Brexit, will have the hardest impact on the most disadvantaged in society.

Brexit reality is vastly different to the fantasy Brexit miss-sold to the public during the referendum campaign. The promise on the side of the bus of an extra £350m per week has crashed into the inconvenient truth that there is no Brexit bonanza for the NHS, only a Brexit penalty. The committee heard evidence that pharmaceutical companies are already spending hundreds of millions on contingency planning. Ultimately these costs will be passed on to the NHS and taxpayers, money that would be far better spent investing in patient care. The costs will only increase as the clock ticks down to March 29. Stockpiling and refrigerated warehousing do not come cheap, let alone chartering special air freight for medical radioisotopes and other essential supplies with short shelf lives. Many companies are already concluding that is in their best interests to relocate or at least halt investment in the UK as a direct result of the uncertainty and disruption."

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/paul-williams-sarah-wollaston-as-both-doctors-and-mps-this-is-why-we-want-a-peoples-vote-1-5778018

I see that page has links to other articles on

the high level impacts of Brexit on the UK nuclear sector, transition and leaving Euratom

the safeguards arrangements in the UK before Brexit

the impact of Brexit on UK safeguards

the role played by nuclear safeguards in international trade

the UK’s options for leaving the Euratom Community.

which might all prove interesting reading.

Potentially useful fallback agreements mentioned are

"The UK government has recently:

confirmed that replacement Nuclear Cooperation Agreements (NCAs) with key nuclear trading partners (the USA, Canada, Australia and Japan) are on track for ratification by 29 March 2019

signed a replacement, bilateral voluntary offer safeguards agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency that is on track for ratification by 29 March 2019

Thank you Elegran. Yes, a relief- providing with go with the Deal and not NO Deal.

Good

Jura (I post this link purely as information found, without grinding any axe in any direction, so please don't shoot the messenger.)

At www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/exiting-euratom-an-update-on-the-impact-of-brexit-on-the-nuclear-industry/ it says

"The UK government has confirmed that all of the nuclear elements of the Withdrawal Agreement are now agreed with the EU. The key outstanding point therefore remains the status of future arrangements for the supply of nuclear fuel which have not yet been agreed due to the fact such arrangements are considered to be part of the Future Trade Agreement between the EU and UK, which cannot be finalised until after the UK has left the EU and Euratom on 29 March 2019."

and further down the page
"While the UK government continues to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement with the EU, it has been progressing its no-deal contingency planning in parallel. The UK government has recently:

confirmed that replacement Nuclear Cooperation Agreements (NCAs) with key nuclear trading partners (the USA, Canada, Australia and Japan) are on track for ratification by 29 March 2019
signed a replacement, bilateral voluntary offer safeguards agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency that is on track for ratification by 29 March 2019
adopted its own domestic Safeguards legislation and issued safeguards regulations for consultation
stated that the Office for Nuclear Regulation is making good progress in recruiting safeguards inspectors to replace those previously provided by Euratom."

This was dated 22 October 2018 so may need updating.

Who the dickens thought that by leaving that we'd be better off ?
Those voters had better think again.
During the G20 summit where you had some of the richest people including China's richest man who owns Britain's Sunseeker yachts as well as a development in Battersea among other things had said that Brexit would be a bad move for investors. Catastrophic in fact. The head of Qantas couldn't shout loud enough for Britain to remain in the EU. Qantas executive had stated that " what has happened in the EU in terms of free trade and growth activity has been good for the EU and the UK ".

Brexit will definitely have a negative impact on businesses and the threat of leaving will have a devastating effect on global recovery.
60% of small businesses wanted to remain.TM should have listened to George Osborne who before the vote in 2016 had said that an exit from the EU would " be a shock to the economy ".

Bad as things are at the present moment when you have big businesses pulling out of our towns----it'll be far worse next year as nobody will want to invest in this country and could you blame them ? People are taking their money and running and we'll be left like a third world country having to fight for everything. Disastrous !

Back to Euratom- does the Deal allow us access to isotopes- or not?

So, the supply of all essential food and medication can be flown into Britain in the event of an emergency through the ports following Brexit?

I believe that 44% of Britain's food is currently transported through various JIT road transport services from Europe. In the event of severe disruption through the ports should air transport be chosen as an option, all that essential freight would have to be transported to European air bases instead of the ports. There the freight would require transfer loading onto aircraft and then flown to air bases in the United Kingdom.

On arrival, that freight would need again transfer onto trucks to be transported to any number of distribution centres that the consignments were destined for. There, the normal JIT, cross dock operations would not be set up in the vast majority of cases to handle loads arriving in such circumstances, and emergency arrangements would have to be introduced and accommodated for (if possible) again at huge cost?

In the foregoing, It would be very questionable if sufficient air freight aircraft would be available to transport the thousands of tons of freight that would require movement on a daily basis, with as stated, the cost being unimaginable. In addition, with a large number of JIT services not operating any number of additional HGV vehicles and drivers would have " conjured up" from somewhere to meet demand?

What would all the above be required for (dare I suggest) so a few Brexitiers could wave the Union Jack and shout "Great Britain"

Rediculas.

Did anyone hear Theresa May on LBC this morning? With Nick Ferrari.
Among other bland and glib statements she said there would be no shortage of medicines. They were taking care of it.
I think she also said the EU has guaranteed this, but not sure. I switched off, couldn't take any more.

If the whole Brexit / Remain situation wasn’t so serious- this thread could be a comedy show!!!

So the new Deal is allowing us access to Euratom?

But they won't be flying, which has been categorically stated on GN