‘Grenfell’ bonfire

This year Lewes ( whose station is’served’ by Southern ) also burned a ghost train- now that was witty and funny

Yes, it does, but I think in this case it may mean a miscarriage of justice.
I am intrigued.

Ministry of Justice

Sorry but can you tell me what MOJ stands for .? I haven’t come across it before & cant work it out .

I can't believe that anyone has been forced to " walk away " from this forum of all forums. It's tame in comparison to others.
For over 6 years I'd been on a crime forum which was very intense and the abuse and bullying was off the scale------all because my personal views on the on-going crime happened to differ from others. Another forum which was set up in opposition had a field day slagging me off with hundreds of posts still in-situ for all to read. The owner of the forum is an ex-cop who has turned a blind eye to the said posts. I've never posted on that forum but those posters could see the forum which I was on and consequently whatever I'd written they ripped to shreds on their own forum. I never realised that such evil people existed. All you need is to have a differing view than theirs and it shows them in their true colours.
I walked away in August from the forum which I'd been on for years----for a breather and to reflect on these vicious controlling sad excuses for human beings. My interest is still in crime particularly the one which held my interest as for me it's going to be the worst MOJ that this country has ever seen. Watch this space !
This post is about abuse at its worst and not just about having a difference of opinion. A huge difference.

It was fairly usual many years ago for children to make a 'guy' and sit in the street or push it around in an old pushchair, asking for 'a penny for the guy'.
It was just a 'stuffed doll' and no-one thought much more than that about it.

Lewes bonfire did not just burn figures who had put themselves in the public domain (as someone said above) but also a large cardboard trailer full of travellers. I do not think prosecutions ensued then as the law was different.

I must admit that as a child the burning of Guy Fawkes did not shock me in any way - it was just a stuffed doll and the implications were lost on me. I never was any good at history.

maddyone I didn't tell jura! - (never let it be said I tell anyone what to do or not to do) but, if someone is finding that GN threads make them stressed the GP's advice could be good.

Jura, if it is your doctor’s advice that you stay off Gransnet, you should do as Jalima says, and your doctor has advised, and stay off it.

Baggs: I also thought that presented differently, e.g. as a critique of the failings (wrong cladding, etc) that allowed the awful Grenfell Tower fire to happen as it did, burning an effigy of the Tower could have been used as a powerful political comment just as burning effigies of Guy Fawkes is to people who think about it.

It could, until you listen to the people involved talking. They are making racist jokes and the victims are the butt of the jokes.
If this had been private within their garden, it would have been nasty but not an offence in law. But one of them posted it on social media, which makes it public.
(Current news items show that the home owner has previous form for this sort of thing)

The issue of offensive behaviour and when it crosses the line into criminal behaviour has been highlighted by this incident.
I understand why many people say this incident is offensive but not necessarily criminal, we have to wait for the Police and CPS to decide whether a crime has been committed. Offences like drink driving and racism for example, are less socially acceptable than they were before they became criminal offences. If this incident is found to fit into some kind of hate or public order offence because it was videoed and shown on line, that may have a similar impact on people who claim offensive behaviour and comments were 'just a joke' or 'just banter'

I think my point is that it doesn’t necessarily have to be criminal to be wrong
It doesn’t seem to be the done thing to make moral judgements these days, but instead to take refuge in designating things as criminal and invoking some law (or creating one) e.g. is wolf whistling offensive? Frequently.
Is it misogeny? Debatable. Is it hate crime? No - but it is still rude and bad behaviour.
I think this is ducking the issue and can lead to the justification for an incident or act to be “well there’s no law against it”.
There are many things which are not necessarily against the law, but that does not make them right does it?

I think the burning of any effigy (however dreadful they may be perceived to be) is wrong - it is, in my view, an expression of hatred and violence towards another person.

Having said that, I think burning a model of Grenfell and the poor people who were in that fire is really on quite another level. Those people actually experienced terror, pain and loss and the glee and enjoyment that the depiction of their suffering elicited was absolutely despicable. I suppose we should only feel sorry for people who are so lacking in even a fragment of humanity.

To say that those who are appalled by the filming of this act are hypocrites is I think ridiculous. Whilst I - and many others - disliked Margaret Thatcher intensely and did not feel sad when she died, most people did not celebrate her death.

Is this some conspiracy theory?
and they pm each other in between to egg each other on

don't let them - listen to my doctor. She has worked in the UK and is a good friend
etc etc etc

Or perhaps just another massive red herring ?

I can understand how this event could escape prosecution if it was carried out privately on private premises alone, but the fact that it was videod and put out on the internet makes a huge difference. That it where, I think, the law was broken.

I guess that there are times when something can be offensive but might not be an offence. The legislators have to decide that in the first place and the CPS make the choice as to whether a prosecution will stand in a particular case.

I think we can all agree that these people are a bit sick in the head. What can they have been thinking of? It is rather sad really.

What is the significance of the doctor having worked in UK?

I am amazed a Doctor has time to read GN, was this in the surgery or a home visit Jura ?

jalima
I'm wracking my brain trying to think of something so bad posted on GN that necessitated being shown to a Doctor

Oh yes, definitely crass and twattish to not feel sure that a thing needs police involvement.

Example: it could be considered to be crass & twatish to take a stance about an incident one has not read about or observed for themselves.

Racism is specific, crass & twatish are clumsy responses .

walk away' - and I have. Will continue to do so - life is too short.
whispers very quietly so as not to offend - but you are still here, are you sure you are doing the right thing jura?
Not doing what the doctor suggested.

However, I think there are worse forums out there on the internet - best avoided.

I think I now have a good understanding, bridgeit, thanks to vivid descriptions on this thread. It doesn't change anything I've said.

For anyone who cares to answer, here's something I don't understand: why is it alright for people to say something is racist but not alright for me to say certain behaviour is crass or twattish? Racism is crass and twattish, isn't it?