Cuts ,just had this sent from my cousin in Manchester .

Yes, the recorded crime rate had gone down so cuts were made accordingly. However - the crime rate has gone up again.

Years ago I recall that changes were made in the way that the police recorded crimes too.

That was under a different administration, so plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

I often agree with you Iam but can’t on this ( we can agree to disagree)
The fire service is still being run properly, as is the police force.Fires are responded to and so is crime, priorities are put in place though, of course.
The deaths claimed by the union rep ( the article quoted by the OP) are not proven at all, and it’s easy to say things like he did, knowing a lot of people will all go ‘ooooh, that’s awful’.
Money was saved in all kinds of ways including work practices, but our fire service and our police are still working well.
Knife crime is rising and it’s time that stop and search was back as it has risen since that was stopped.
The cuts have impacted our public services, no doubt about that, but sensationalist articles citing death by fire are untrustworthy IMO.
Since the economy is improving then gradually public spending will start to rise in all areas.

I've read many a right-wing post on GN defending appalling cuts and justifying disgraceful policies but this thread is approaching disgusting.
(By the way my father had a long and successful career in the Fire Service and he called Fire Engines machines!)

Knife crime is rising and it’s time that stop and search was back as it has risen since that was stopped

Hilarious

Glad you are so easily amused oldbatty
The stop and search practice on grounds of ethnicity was stopped ( and I understand why) but many Mothers from black communities wish it had never done so.So many boys from African backgrounds and West Indian are in knife carrying gangs.

The fire service is still being run properly, as is the police force.

What bl**dy planet are you living on, lemon?

In a little Tory - blue world of her own maizie!!

That’s not fair ! Are you seriously saying that knife crime is not on the up ? It seems that every single day in the news there is yet another murder in London !

Mr Khan is doing a sterling job isn’t he ?

Police won’t stop and search black kids for fear of being racist. Meanwhile a woman has full police attention because someone beeped their horn at her in a petrol station.
Are we in some kind of parallel universe ?

Mothers from black communities

Where do you get this information from please?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/05/police-stop-and-search-knife-crime

Oh mcem and Maizie you can’t wait for the Socialist Paradise that will arrive with Corbyn in number 10,
When there are droves of policemen on every corner and all is perfection.
Yes, of course our fire services and police forces are being run properly, they are prioritising and changing working practices.If your house is on fire they will be there.

lemon sorry to burst the bubble of your vivid imagination but the only time I voted Labour was when Tony Blair was elected (and I have no intention of supporting Corbyn.)
One might even think that you jump to incorrect conclusions.
My political (note the small p) opinions are not just based on party politics.
The more I see entrenched right-wingers supporting this government 's shameful policies, the more I shall voice my disagreement.
Why should that come as a surprise or be open to criticism?

I think some of us are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea (politically speaking).

You're right gilly but at least that implies a degree of open-mindedness.

My SiL is a firefighter. He has been in the service for almost 20 years now and has several promotions. His income is well below my DD who now works as an self employed consultant. He now has 2 different degrees ( photography & law) but chooses to work as a FF . However he has spoken of the dire cutbacks, nonsensical targets and policies not necessarily originating from the brigade HQ but as a direct result of gov. policy and action.

Well I don’t know what to say to that to be honest PECS except for maybe it is relative to where in the country you live. Here in the NE fire personnel (I never know what on earth to call them these days), teachers, police officers are among the very highest paid and the only ones who come out was good pensions too. Pity help the lowly factory worker round here is you consider a fire person to be badly paid .
My dads friend was a “fireman” he worked in the fire service for 30 years and has been retired for the same length of time on a massive pension. He brags to my dad that he gets more than the average working man. He is 80 the same as my dad . Can we really pay these kinds of pensions out for 30,40,50 years? No wonder there are having to be cutbacks.

Many firefighters have second jobs too (a lot work for local funeral homes around here) as (thankfully) I can’t remember the last actual fire we had in this town. Before anyone jumps down my throat I know they do more than attend fires.

Wow gilly you must be right about geographical differences.
I'm not jumping down your throat but that really isn't typical here and this isn't a terrifically wealthy area - see this week's news about the loss of nearly 1 000 jobs as the Michelin factory is closed - a factory known for paying generous wages.
Teachers, police officers and fire fighters are reasonably well paid but not high earners.
Given the cuts that all public services are enduring I think they earn every penny.
Also bear in mind that their public sector pensions depend on the length of time they've served and their personal contributions to their pension fund. The more they put in the more they get out.
Admittedly, it's not an option for everyone but not a government funded freebie either.

gilly The proportion of a salary that goes into the good work pension of public service jobs is quite high. It is not good to bear a grudge against public workers doing essential jobs and comparing to wages in industry. I know a couple, a London firefighter & a nursery nurse, who really struggle to make ends meet..they live in social housing and do not own a car . SiL is fortunate that my DD is earning well. He never had a 2nd job after his first 2 yrs when he helped out occasionally in his mum's business doing labouring.
Small & specialised industries are badly served by successive governments thst seem to be " owned*" and at the beck and call multinationals who seem to hold all the power. Direct your understandable anger at them not at other working folk.

www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/firefighter

see this week's news about the loss of nearly 1 000 jobs as the Michelin factory is closed - a factory known for paying generous wages

Which is probably why it is having to close mcem (I bet they are moving production abroad). The only private sector employer up here that pays anywhere near decent wages (probably rubbish for down South, but okay for here up North) is Nissan. Everyone is holding their breath as they are making huge cut backs and making extended shut downs too.

The problem as I see it employers can only pay whet they are able to charge out. Employers NI is very high, likewise enforced pensions, insurances, rents and rates (that’s before they pay a penny out in wages) . No wonder many of our large employers are shipping out.

I don’t begrudge public sector workers a penny PECS crikey my sister is one. She talks about how badly she is paid. She is effectively a pen pusher and earns far more than anyone could get doing the same in the private sector up here. She also has a very generous pension to look forward to. I just wish people could understand that we cannot all work for the public sector can we?

gilly is right, and as most of my family, both working and retired have been in the public sector, policemen ,teachers and nurses, I can say that they are well paid everywhere in the country ( bear that in mind, in areas where housing is fairly cheap, not all live in London.)
Their jobs are far more protected than the private sector and their pensions guaranteed and safe ( yes, they do have to pay quite a lot in) but better that, and a good retirement pot.
Which is why, although they are all wanting salary rises and more money for whichever service they are in, they are actually in better positions than anyone in the private sector on similar wages.
Public spending had to be slimmed down....anyone remember the financial crash? No, thought not.
Things are recovering now and so gradually public spending will increase.

I should have said relatively generous wages which possibly compare with Nissan.
PECS is right, I believe. It must be extremely difficult for small business owners to meet all the costs imposed on them BUT please don't let's buy into the 'divide and conquer' philosophy.
Remember the phrases 'hard-working families' 'just about managing' and the laughable 'all in it together '?
Don't ring true, do they?
If folk genuinely work hard they deserve to be paid for their labour and the Scottish firefighter isn't to blame for unfair wage deals in NE factories.

Since when did “genuinely working hard” have any bearing on how much anyone is paid?

Likewise the Tyneside factory worker should not be over taxed /NI in order to appease powerful public sector unions requests for increased wages for their members .

I don’t think the wages of an average guy on the line at Nissan compare with those of a FF, nurse, police officer etc. But I get what you mean.