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Is today’s Brexit the same as we voted for in 2016.

(276 Posts)
MarthaBeck Sat 10-Nov-18 09:33:15

I liked the question on social media this morning.

Simple question, is Brexit today the same Brexit put to the electorate at the referendum 2 years ago? Obviously millions of our electoral no longer believe so, in which case that vote is no longer valid.
We need a vote on what we are being offered in 2018 NOT what was promised in confirm or reject Brexit

tanith Sat 10-Nov-18 09:39:50

I haven’t changed my opinion it’s always been a disaster in the making I don’t want to leave.

paddyann Sat 10-Nov-18 10:25:50

She's dragging Scotland out against our will with no say in the matter and now she's bartering the fishing rights in her backstop nonsense .Only thing she wont sell is the trillions of £ of OIL ,THATS the only reason she's desperate to hold onto Scotland .

winterwhite Sat 10-Nov-18 10:33:17

In 2016 we were told that leaving the EU would be win-win for everybody. Not to mention the extra ££££ for the NHS. Nothing that I recall about taking a decade to break even.... So certainly not the same. Less sure about a People’s vote. A full debate in Parliament, after MPs have sounded out their constituents, followed by a free vote might be better. Time consuming but this is much too important to be rushed.

lemongrove Sat 10-Nov-18 11:26:48

I haven’t changed my opinion, to leave the EU, and since we were not offered a choice other than in or out, I had no expectations on the ‘how’ of it.I just thought it would be the best deal that we could get, with compromises on both sides.
What I didn’t expect was that Parliament, after agreeing a referendum and agreeing to trigger article 50 would then go
Collectively crazy pushing their own agendas, what a shower.
T May seems to be the only responsible one, and she was a Remain voter!

Framilode Sat 10-Nov-18 11:59:55

Lemongrove I'm interested in your view on here about Parliament. Though I'm a remainer and I know you are a strong leaver from previous posts I respect your views. It's interesting to hear what you think about parliament from the other perspective.

I agree with you, though I think Theresa May could have handled the negotiations better.

Cindersdad Sat 10-Nov-18 12:23:03

I voted REMAIN and to be honest have never respected the Referendum because of the lies told. The people were seriously misled and no-one voted for the deal that appears to be emerging. Parliament has done nothing constructive since June 2016 when so many domestic issues need attending to. The only way to proceed is to have s pubic vote offering a choice between accepting the deal (or no deal) and staying in the EU. It must done with TOTAL HONESTY and allow 16/17 year olds a say (it is their future!).

Afterwards we can start to heal a divided society and please no more Referenda though a final one to I hope reverse the 2016 debacle is sadly needed.

As for Theresa May she is stuck between her own Hard Right Wing and common sense without the wisdom to see just how impossible and damaging Brexit really is. The unfortunate lady does not know which way to turn.

crystaltipps Sat 10-Nov-18 12:51:43

We were told by D Davies and others that we could have all the benefits of the single market and customs union because “ they need us more than we need them”, as well as saving lots of money which would be spent on public services and it would all be super easy. Now it appears none of this is the case. The big Brexit hitters Johnson, Gove etc have all scuttled away leaving May to take the flak. It looks like we will still have to pay billions, obey the regulations but have no say in any of them. I’m not sure it’s what most Brexiteers voted for.

Grandad1943 Sat 10-Nov-18 13:10:56

There are media reports that a "no deal" Brexit plan is to be placed in front of the cabinet next week which has been drawn up by the civil service. Should those reports be correct, then I believe that the whole Brexit scenario should then be returned to the British electorate for their final decision on leaving the EU under the above situation.

All through the referendum, it was continually stated by the leave campaign that a trade and customs agreement would be made with the European Union. Indeed, David Davis stated on the day that article fifty was signed that "these will be the easiest negotiations ever concluded.

In the above, it is only right that the British electorate should have the ultimate input into a leave scenario that was unforeseen by both sides in the referendum campaign.

In a no deal situation, a fresh vote may be the only way to pull this country together and possibly prevent large scale disorder on our streets.

HildaW Sat 10-Nov-18 13:27:08

Well said Tanith....and ditto. I am STILL puzzled that so many people actually believed what the likes of Farage and Johnson said. It was beyond me then and still is.....I no longer watch the news....its like watching a car crash in slow motion and I worry daily what our children will have to cope with.

FlexibleFriend Sat 10-Nov-18 13:47:03

we do not need another vote, we voted to leave and that still stands. What we need is to start over with someone else in charge and deliver what we voted for. We are being held in the EU against our will. We have made all the concessions and the Eu has made none.

Bridgeit Sat 10-Nov-18 13:52:53

Yes it is, but leavers just didn’t want to heed the warnings.

EllanVannin Sat 10-Nov-18 14:21:55

I wouldn't know as I didn't vote to leave.

crystaltipps Sat 10-Nov-18 14:23:48

But no one can deliver what people voted for because there were so many different promises / lies and different reasons for voting. It will be impossible to please everyone, and could end up making the country poorer and more divided. I was against a second vote, but now think it may be the only way. It’s surely not undemocratic to ask people to vote when we actually have an idea what we are voting for.

EllanVannin Sat 10-Nov-18 14:24:16

I'm not a person who adjusts or adapts to change, never have been because change doesn't always mean that it'll work and in this case it hasn't and it won't.

FlexibleFriend Sat 10-Nov-18 15:03:32

Oh and being a member of the EU has worked so well for us, no it hasn't. It costs us an absolute fortune which is why the EU is making it so difficult for us to leave. They won't miss us but they will miss our money. We get treated as though we are irrelevant so why are they fighting so hard for us to stay. They know if we leave they will lose a big chunk of money and they are also worried that if we go others will follow. They are fighting to keep their jobs and they only do that if we stay. The sooner the EU is disbanded the better.

petra Sat 10-Nov-18 15:09:51

Seeing as I seem to be the only one who doesn't know exactly what the deal is I can't say.

lemongrove Sat 10-Nov-18 15:11:33

grin true enough!

andycameron69 Sat 10-Nov-18 18:10:38

well said flex friend , I agree.

What do remainers not understand about these two words:



simple out ...totally not half in half out. Our country will be great out. it is what the majority in the UK voted for.
To sad remainers. get over yourselves and value democracy. Thank you

Welshwife Sat 10-Nov-18 18:50:45

A very small majority -
If you look at a pie chart of the U.K. GDP you can hardly see the slice which is sent to the EU -

varian Sat 10-Nov-18 19:01:48

Indeed, Welshwife. For this tiny percentage of our GDP we have the many benefits of being an influential member of the world's largest and most successful trading bloc.

EllanVannin Sat 10-Nov-18 19:06:31

Flexible Friend take a look at how much this country parts with in foreign aid.

EllanVannin Sat 10-Nov-18 19:48:30

Andycameron I'm no " sad remainer " just because exit was a majority vote doesn't mean to say that those who voted exit knew what it would entail or that they were right in doing so.
We'll get well and truly conned with trade agreements etc as we'll no longer have backup. Food prices will soar.

My main argument for remaining is the rock solid insurance that there'll be peace between the UK and EU. The EU are our friends and are there to discuss whatever problem arises and any disputes can be ironed out by talking . What happens out of the EU when/if negotiations don't work ? World War 3 because nobody agrees with us ? What about our allies ? Nothing was ever solved by fighting as has been proved by the wars which cropped up, Falklands Bosnia, Syria, Iraq and Sudan. No wars have been created since the EU was created.

What we must be assured of is support from our MEP's , a strong representation within the EU parliament to support a solid British agenda.

The fear with an exit would be a halt on talking and when the talking stops people start fighting and to guarantee that we never go to war with the Europeans again we must remain at the top in the EU and make sure we have a fair crack of the whip..

How would any disputes be sorted in the coming years?

Are the curly bananas a reason for leaving ?

Staying in the EU is our guarantee/Insurance that we will be at peace with one another.

M0nica Sat 10-Nov-18 19:59:26

No idea, nobody had a clue what Brexit meant in the run up to the referendum. Many people assumed leaving within days.

The referendum was more about party infighting than anything to do with careful considered views on the future of the UK and that applied as much to the electorate as it did to the governing parties themselves.

Jalima1108 Sat 10-Nov-18 20:02:22

Is today’s Brexit the same as we voted for in 2016
hmm not sure how to answer that as the wording would appear to be directed only at those who voted to leave the EU.

‘Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?’ was the question - yes or no

petra you are not the only one, I have no idea what the final deal is either.
Perhaps we missed something.