Is today’s Brexit the same as we voted for in 2016.

Marthabeck, thank you for your opinion of me.

If you had read the thread you would have noticed that I was responding to someone’s post!!!

You would have also known that I was “an avid” remainer until our 5 children (all well educated, non racist caring individuals) explained that it was their future I was voting for and would I consider changing my vote to “leave” which after due consideration I did.

So please do not infer that I do not care for my C or GC or anyone’s C GC or GGC.

I doubt whether any of the leavers voted for this shambles, but this is what we've got, just because of their vote. This is not as bad as it gets. Brexit could still happen.

Grannygravy is not going down well this week.
Do you mean by that remark that you personally do not agree with what Grannygravy has posted?

Grannygravy is not going down well this week. Gambling at long odds on a bright future in this climate on our grandchildren’s future is not a healthy sound option. I desire stability, for my grandchildren not the possibility of nightmars and tears after participating in a horror scenario that went completely haywire with no fall back.
Afternoon tea and cakes at a fund raising event is not the answer to the “I am all right brigade” Attitudes.

andy what is it you find 'impossible to understand'? Is it that people 'bought' the lies? Is it that the politicians who instigated the farce that was the Leave campaign have dropped out because they knew that what they had promised was unachievable? Is it that it was blindingly obvious the EU wouldn't give us a good deal? Surely everyone can now see that what they voted for is not what they will get?

No, I only caught the end of that... the bit that got rather heated? It was the chap interviewed on his own after that. He sounded civil servantish! I just thought that it seems that even the ‘experts’ have no idea what’s true, what’s not and what’s possible.

no deal here we come, a proper Brexit. anything else is Reaining.. the majority voted out is that impossible to understand?

Was it the Weatherspoons man? He was on but I didn't hear all the programme. It is easy to see why he is keen on Brexit, he makes a profit from downmarket pubs so it is in his interest for our population to be poor. Yes, I know that is a simplification but I'm sure you get the point. He showed no interest in the other person, who was speaking on behalf of small businesses, came across as 'I'm all right Jack'

It was interesting to hear a couple of lies being put to bed on Radio Four this lunchtime.

1. - That if there’s no deal we will still have to pay the £39 billion despite the extreme Brexiteers saying we won’t, and

2. - That we can’t have another In/Out referendum whatever the Remainers think. If we do have a referendum, which isn’t likely, it will be on which option - Ms May’s deal or no deal.

And no, I can’t remember the name of the interviewee!

Well stated Monica , absolutely agree with you.

Donald Tusk has said the EU is prepared for a "No Brexit scenario" and I think they would just let us stay in on our current terms. They would simply be happy that the bad dream was over as I think many in the UK would be.

If I hear one more politician talk about 'The 'British people voting for Brexit' I will end up throwing something at the poor innocent radio.

The British people, did NOT vote for Brexit. The leavers had a bare majority. Had the vote been a week or so either way the result could have been different. Yes, the Leavers won and we should leave, but when the number voting to stay was so close, there hope and fears should be taken into account.

These terms seem to me a reasonable compromise between the two groups. We leave, but with an acceptance that nearly half the people do not want to go, so some of their biggest concerns are met.

As I said on another thread, The fact that both sides hate this agreement is probably a good sign that it has been got right.

I felt we were on a looser as soon as the EU refused to let us arrange or even look at a trade agreement until we were completely out. Since we were already in effect in one it seemed common sense to do that first as it would have avoided many of the pitfalls and problems.

I think, and have done for some time, that the whole thing will collapse and we’ll stay in - only under worse terms.

Brexit Tory MP’s are so angry because it looks as we are being offered a half way between the status quo and leaving the table with no longer a say in endeavouring to improve the EU. We are being offered a watered down Brexit very different to what the electorate voted for in the referendum.
For me we are now being asked to accept a deal which is really a gamble into the unknown with little if any of the benefits we were told we would gain by leaving the eu. The status quo is a much safer option for our grandchildren’s future in my view. We really are becoming isolated with so little say in our own future. Has it been worth while? Not in my view.

A lot of ordinary folk do have investments in the stock market via their pension funds or insurance policies so any stock market crash effects the whole economy, not just the wealthy.

Oh, goodness, if we followed the stock market on a daily basis, we would be alternately ecstatic or in despair.

If we had investments, of course.

Who, in 2016, voted for this?

"The pound and shares in housebuilders and banks have fallen sharply after cabinet ministers Dominic Raab and Esther McVey quit over Prime Minister Theresa May's draft Brexit deal.

Royal Bank of Scotland sank 9%, with 7% falls for Persimmon, Taylor Wimpey and Barratt Developments.

Sterling fell 1.7% against the dollar and 1.9% against the euro.

The FTSE 100 index closed little moved, but the FTSE 250, which mainly comprises UK-focused firms, fell 1.6%.

Capita topped the fallers in the FTSE 250, plunging 14%, with Countryside Properties down 9%.2

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46219038

Thanks maryeliza - I understand a little better now. Good link.

TM's right about the non-separation of Northern Ireland as it would indeed threaten the integrity of the UK. No to a separate status for NI. What a dumb suggestion anyway.
I thought we'd done away with the " Checkpoint Charlie " ( Berlin Wall )
NI don't want Brexit and who can blame them ?

Fennel I think this is quite helpful

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

Can anyone explain what is meant by a 'backstop' to a proposed deal? I used to be backstop in rounders - stood behind the batter and grabbed the ball if she missed.
All I can think of is that it's something to do with N. Ireland.

We could always veto a European army if we were in the EU, not sure why anyone is worried about an EU army except if we’re not in it.

I’m not disagreeing but I just wanted a deal on the table so we can at least see the nature of the beast. As bad as leaving is imo the only other option is no deal and that doesn’t bear thinking about. The HofC vote on this is the next hurdle of course - I wonder who she’s thrown under the bus re the Irish Border - I do so hope it’s the DUP

Unions work maryeliza54 when managed properly. If left to us with a single market we're sunk.

Oohhh just heard that BJ is not a happy bunny. EV I agree with your sentiments but given where we are we need a deal of some kind