Is today’s Brexit the same as we voted for in 2016.

To be perfectly honest I'm both ashamed and disgusted that the majority of Liverpool people voted for Brexit when it was the EU that lifted the city out of the mire after it had been flattened in the ground and forgotten in the '80's. EU funding benefitted hugely in the city------airport, transport links,the Liverpool One shopping area, and other areas where funding was needed.

Gone will be any more funding and because Liverpool isn't exactly flowing with Conservative support they will not throw cash to the area where there's nothing to gain from it.
Workers rights will go if the union goes along with the standards and wellbeing of the workers.

Is anyone prepared to be at the mercy of this government with their Victorian standards of living/working and their MP's who couldn't give a toss about the ordinary man in the street-------as long as they're alright,Jack ?!

Oohhh just heard that BJ is not a happy bunny. EV I agree with your sentiments but given where we are we need a deal of some kind

Unions work maryeliza54 when managed properly. If left to us with a single market we're sunk.

I’m not disagreeing but I just wanted a deal on the table so we can at least see the nature of the beast. As bad as leaving is imo the only other option is no deal and that doesn’t bear thinking about. The HofC vote on this is the next hurdle of course - I wonder who she’s thrown under the bus re the Irish Border - I do so hope it’s the DUP

We could always veto a European army if we were in the EU, not sure why anyone is worried about an EU army except if we’re not in it.

Can anyone explain what is meant by a 'backstop' to a proposed deal? I used to be backstop in rounders - stood behind the batter and grabbed the ball if she missed.
All I can think of is that it's something to do with N. Ireland.

Fennel I think this is quite helpful

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

TM's right about the non-separation of Northern Ireland as it would indeed threaten the integrity of the UK. No to a separate status for NI. What a dumb suggestion anyway.
I thought we'd done away with the " Checkpoint Charlie " ( Berlin Wall )
NI don't want Brexit and who can blame them ?

Thanks maryeliza - I understand a little better now. Good link.

Who, in 2016, voted for this?

"The pound and shares in housebuilders and banks have fallen sharply after cabinet ministers Dominic Raab and Esther McVey quit over Prime Minister Theresa May's draft Brexit deal.

Royal Bank of Scotland sank 9%, with 7% falls for Persimmon, Taylor Wimpey and Barratt Developments.

Sterling fell 1.7% against the dollar and 1.9% against the euro.

The FTSE 100 index closed little moved, but the FTSE 250, which mainly comprises UK-focused firms, fell 1.6%.

Capita topped the fallers in the FTSE 250, plunging 14%, with Countryside Properties down 9%.2

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46219038

Oh, goodness, if we followed the stock market on a daily basis, we would be alternately ecstatic or in despair.

If we had investments, of course.

A lot of ordinary folk do have investments in the stock market via their pension funds or insurance policies so any stock market crash effects the whole economy, not just the wealthy.

Brexit Tory MP’s are so angry because it looks as we are being offered a half way between the status quo and leaving the table with no longer a say in endeavouring to improve the EU. We are being offered a watered down Brexit very different to what the electorate voted for in the referendum.
For me we are now being asked to accept a deal which is really a gamble into the unknown with little if any of the benefits we were told we would gain by leaving the eu. The status quo is a much safer option for our grandchildren’s future in my view. We really are becoming isolated with so little say in our own future. Has it been worth while? Not in my view.

I felt we were on a looser as soon as the EU refused to let us arrange or even look at a trade agreement until we were completely out. Since we were already in effect in one it seemed common sense to do that first as it would have avoided many of the pitfalls and problems.

I think, and have done for some time, that the whole thing will collapse and we’ll stay in - only under worse terms.

If I hear one more politician talk about 'The 'British people voting for Brexit' I will end up throwing something at the poor innocent radio.

The British people, did NOT vote for Brexit. The leavers had a bare majority. Had the vote been a week or so either way the result could have been different. Yes, the Leavers won and we should leave, but when the number voting to stay was so close, there hope and fears should be taken into account.

These terms seem to me a reasonable compromise between the two groups. We leave, but with an acceptance that nearly half the people do not want to go, so some of their biggest concerns are met.

As I said on another thread, The fact that both sides hate this agreement is probably a good sign that it has been got right.

Donald Tusk has said the EU is prepared for a "No Brexit scenario" and I think they would just let us stay in on our current terms. They would simply be happy that the bad dream was over as I think many in the UK would be.

Well stated Monica , absolutely agree with you.

It was interesting to hear a couple of lies being put to bed on Radio Four this lunchtime.

1. - That if there’s no deal we will still have to pay the £39 billion despite the extreme Brexiteers saying we won’t, and

2. - That we can’t have another In/Out referendum whatever the Remainers think. If we do have a referendum, which isn’t likely, it will be on which option - Ms May’s deal or no deal.

And no, I can’t remember the name of the interviewee!

Was it the Weatherspoons man? He was on but I didn't hear all the programme. It is easy to see why he is keen on Brexit, he makes a profit from downmarket pubs so it is in his interest for our population to be poor. Yes, I know that is a simplification but I'm sure you get the point. He showed no interest in the other person, who was speaking on behalf of small businesses, came across as 'I'm all right Jack'

no deal here we come, a proper Brexit. anything else is Reaining.. the majority voted out is that impossible to understand?

No, I only caught the end of that... the bit that got rather heated? It was the chap interviewed on his own after that. He sounded civil servantish! I just thought that it seems that even the ‘experts’ have no idea what’s true, what’s not and what’s possible.

andy what is it you find 'impossible to understand'? Is it that people 'bought' the lies? Is it that the politicians who instigated the farce that was the Leave campaign have dropped out because they knew that what they had promised was unachievable? Is it that it was blindingly obvious the EU wouldn't give us a good deal? Surely everyone can now see that what they voted for is not what they will get?

Grannygravy is not going down well this week. Gambling at long odds on a bright future in this climate on our grandchildren’s future is not a healthy sound option. I desire stability, for my grandchildren not the possibility of nightmars and tears after participating in a horror scenario that went completely haywire with no fall back.
Afternoon tea and cakes at a fund raising event is not the answer to the “I am all right brigade” Attitudes.

Grannygravy is not going down well this week.
Do you mean by that remark that you personally do not agree with what Grannygravy has posted?

I doubt whether any of the leavers voted for this shambles, but this is what we've got, just because of their vote. This is not as bad as it gets. Brexit could still happen.