Grenfell garden bonfire video

Here’s a clue - TM was not really burned to death whereas in Grenfell Towers........

Just watched part of today’s GT Enquiry - a policeman wept as he recalled seeing people at the Windows. Yep - some of you have nailed it. A poor taste joke with the moral equivalence of burning TM’s effigy

I guess maybe there is a time and a place for mentioning other deeds and I still maintain burning an effigy of a political figure is not the same as the Grenfell situation.

People in public life know they are going to take some flack and are resilient. Children asleep in their beds aren't.

I would think the reaction would be the same .

Your problem maryeliza is you bypass the comments on the thread that have emphatically denounced both the burning of the Grenfell Tower effigy AND those who did it.

You try to create some sort of spin story that posters haven't denounced the action taken by those who burnt the Grenfell Effigies and are by nature non empathetic because they raise the topic of other vile deeds that take place .

I just can’t help but wonder if the victims had all been white and the effigy makers had been Asian - no, don’t be silly Mary, just an idle thought

Miss exactly - empathy is the word

I keep thinking how I would feel if someone had recreated my daughters last hours on earth, complete with jeering and commentary.
I can't even bring myself to write about it, but it makes my blood run absolutely cold to imagine.
That's what these people have done.. more than bad taste, I think.

Miss Adventure

" It isn't the same as burning effigies, although that is in bad taste.

It was recreating the scene of peoples deaths, which happened only recently. "
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The murder of politician Jo Cox was a wake up call as to the sick behaviour our politicians from ALL sides are having to deal with.

Death threats, threats of rape , vile anti-semetic abuse , threats against their family are disgracefully / shamefully day to day issues they have to deal with for serving on our behalf. Effigies of politicians hanging from a rope or with a knife in their back , being called c---s on placards is beyond bad taste in my book.

The placard waving activists , the burning of effigies of serving politicians in ' public' , in front of children gives the ' sick ' animals who spout their vile abuse a platform but it also culturally is saying ' Politicians are Fare Game ' for abuse and god knows what.

They are not in my opinion but as this thread shows not ALL posters agree so each to their own I suppose.

Yes something in bad taste is an unsavoury comment or perhaps a smutty joke. Making figures, going to the trouble of giving them brown faces and hijab and filming whilst you burn the thing, is a bit more than bad taste or not nice.

Absolutely Miss when posters talk about bad taste I do wonder what these posts say about their moral compasses.

I think that recreating a terrible, terrible tragedy, laughing and mocking whilst filming it, and then putting it on show is a huge deal.
It isn't the same as burning effigies, although that is in bad taste.
It was recreating the scene of peoples deaths, which happened only recently.
How those who lost family must have felt about it I can't imagine.
It seems extremely hateful to me.

I take it you’re a lawyer btw?

Oohhh Jennifer perhaps you could explain how the police decide whether something might be a crime without getting involved?

I agree with the sentiment expressed.

The point which stood out for me was the idea that the price we pay for a free society is accepting that sometimes we will encounter things which to us are unpleasant, yet are not crimes.

Heaven knows the police have enough to do dealing with real crimes. Yes the bonfire and video were in bad taste, but if a crime wasn't committed, they shouldn't get involved.

disrespectful. i am not being flippant i assure you

not very nice?

Hmmm I am not sure about this topic. I totally agree that what they did was not very nice and it was incredibly hurtful and "in bad taste" but i really think there are bigger police issues where the time spent investigating this can be used. And as was said above is this any more wrong than burning effigies

In public surely there has to be a line drawn somewhere as to how far someone can go with hate fillled speech.

I agree, meliza. There is such a line. It is the line that incitement to violence or other criminal activity draws, well defined by law.

Old Batty

I still cannot understand how people can draw a parallel between burning an effigy of Guy Fawkes and burning effigies of serving Politicians !

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/human-rights/free-speech-and-protest/speech-offences

This is quite helpful

maryeliza, so much more articulate than me. I was beside myself about this and then the insults started.

Baggs he makes much of the private aspect. In public surely there has to be a line drawn somewhere as to how far someone can go with hate fillled speech.
old drawing a paralllell between this and effigies of GF is classic whataboutery and equally fallacious and intelllectually impoverished. It’s used to detract from the gravity of a specific incident by widening the scope of the debate with different examples so as to make it meaningless. The hope then is that the initial incident/example will be forgotten.

Thanks. I still cannot understand how people drew a parallel between this and burning a Guy or an effigy of a political figure.

meliza is correct about slippery slope arguments being fallacious.

Embery's argument about resisting giving the police powers over hate speech still holds though.

Yes certainly old. In the last paragraph he suggests that the alternative to not allowing vile racist comments is a totalitarian state. That’s rubbish - there are many steps in n between and prosecuting these racists ( if indeed that’s the outcome) does not lead inevitably to totalitarianism. And he also misses the point spectacularly that the issue is not what they did in private but that it was published.