German wreath at the cenotaph

Sorry about the repeat post.

I saw the genuine hug between Macron and Merkel and was heartened, thinking of the terrible times inflicted 100+ years ago on the French by the Germans.
It's in the past, yes, and some will still remember WW2 - but we should learn from history, not repeat it.

Opal
Through the winter I spend a lot of time with Germans, you obviously haven't because if you had/did you would know that they feel exactly the same as us about the 2 world wars.

If we cannot reconcile after 100/ 70 years …. we are off to hell in a hand cart! We are at peace now with Europe and that unity has been important to maintain peace. Especially now, with UK trying to withdraw and upsetting the EU, a German presence at this ceremony indicates a will to maintain a peaceful future.

I agree with the sentiments of spanielnanny time to have peace between nations. So many people died from both countries don't let it be in vain.

I think it was long overdue.

When you forgive you do not forget or change the past,
But you can change the future.

Friendship brings peace.

Peace for the future and for my Grandchildren

I think it was a good thing to do. Stopping the Nazis was one thing, the men who were ordinary soldiers in the German Army were another.I appreciate what you feel Opal and whilst we should always remember and commemorate those who died in the two major wars with Germany, in the end if respect is shown then it should be accepted.

A wonderful gesture and not a day too soon in my opinion
My grandad fought in WW1 and in later years 60 s 70 s had some wonderful German friends visiting and staying in their homes My Dad fought in WW2 and never had a bad word about any nationality afterwards My cousin who fought in WW2 married a German lady They would all say it was a welcome gesture
We need to be more proactive about peace and more proactive about forgiveness
I think you are on your own here Opal

Yes Bluebelle I rather think I am . Thank you for your responses and your various points of view, I will take them all on board. No petra, I don't know any German citizens and admit I don't know their point of view, I'm glad if they feel the same about WW2 as we do. I respect all of your views, but still feel the same, that it was still too early whilst old soldiers of WW2 are still living. Ultimately, I am a grandmother as well as a daughter, and earnestly hope for a peaceful future for my grandchildren, at the same time learning lessons from history.

I think it was a wonderful gesture to invite him to the Cenotaph. A lesson in forgiveness. I get the impression that the German wreath caused less offence than JC’s anorak.

My next door neighbour is, without doubt, one of the most wonderful people you could ever wish to meet. She was born in Germany in 1930, remaining there until she married her British husband in 1953. Her son has served in the British forces and, her grandson now serves in the RAF. As Cherrytree said, friendship brings peace

Unity is what keeps wars at bay. We can't afford to be hostile like Trump is.
Notice he keeps on side with North Korea ? He's not bothered about small fry in Europe.

I agree with everyone here that it was a very fitting gesture, and I can't really put it better than Cherrytree :

When you forgive you do not forget or change the past,
But you can change the future.

It is so important that all nations work together to change the future. Hanging on to the animosity of a war that ended 100 years ago serves no purpose.

Opal just to say that my father , who was in the RN during the war, always hated the Germans. My younger sister had bitter arguments with him. She studied German and went there often. I used to side with my Dad, but after reading etc
came round to my sister's view.
This is a book which I recommend for anyone who is interested:
alisonowings.com/books-publications/frauen/

Those who were paying attention during “They Shall Not Grow Old” will have heard some of the soldiers saying that they respected their opposite numbers on the German side and how they felt they were just like them, ordinary men doing their duty.
If they could say that, and there were instances of German POWs acting as stretcher bearers etc, who are we in our generation to say otherwise?

I am the “product” of a British Officer (Scottish) and his German bride whom he brought back to this country in 1947 having met her in the Harz Mountains as the army of liberation moved across Germany. He could have had every reason to hate the Germans as he was among the first troops into Belsen and was well aware of the horrors. He and my German grandpa had a wonderful relationship however.
My FIL was a Commando war hero with a Légion d’Honneur, Croix de Guerre and DSO to his name. He got on very well with my Mum and also had many German friends from his 4 years in Berlin with the British Miltary Government.
German does not equal Nazi and the men and women who served do not in my experience bear grudges against honest soldiers.
Ugly things happened on both sides. It is time to move on.

Well said Maw

I m so surprised that after all the stories on here you still feel the same Opal why do you feel so strongly when you admit you ve never even met a German.Surely you cannot continually hold the sons guilty for the sins of their fathers
Bad things happen on all sides in a war I m sure many many German people did not want to be involved in a war any more than we did they lost their dad, grandads too
War has no winners only losers
Open your heart it is not good to be so closed to acceptance and forgiveness how else will we ever move on
We need to work together to ensure future peace

I used to know a lady whose husband had been a pow in Japan where he was starved and tortured. He used to hate the Japanese , but towards to the end of his life did receive some compensation from the Japanese government which he refused at first but then accepted and give to his children. He did manage to meet some Japanese officials and although he never forgot, he did manage to forgive.

My Dad was in Burma I never heard him say a hateful word but he never never ate rice for the rest of his life
It is up to each person who has lived with and through atrosaties to forgive when they are able but it is not for future generations to hold on to that hate on their behalf

I don't know why you say its too soon Opal its a century since the end of WW1 and 70 years from WW2. How long should we hold on to hatred. Most of us here are parents & grandparents its time to show by example and let go of these feelings.

I don't have a problem with a German wreath being laid at the Cenotaph.
I do find it wrong that there is a ban on representatives from Rhodesians/Zimbabwe laying a wreath at the Cenotaph.
The ban dates back to 1965, reinforced in 2003.
34, 000 Rhodesians served in two World Wars, with a loss of 1,800 lives.

My Grandfathers fought in WW1 and my father and uncles in WW2.
I'm sure that if he'd still been with us Dad would have approved of this conciliatory gesture.
(As slight aside from the Germany debate I'd like to add that Dad loved Italy, visited often and enjoyed learning the language despite the fact that he fought his way with the 8th army from Sicily to the north and into Austria.)
I too am saddened that after the long years of peace we've enjoyed as part of a united Europe we are about to lose a significant element of that.

I thought it was appropriate and a symbol of lasting peace. I like to think that my grandparents and parents would have appreciated it for the sake of the new generations.

I think we have to forgive and move on, although obviously we never forget, and always remember those who died.
The German president laying a wreath was a very suitable gesture of the friendship that we now have.