Bullying Remainers

No Smileless I have not made any 'assumptions' my comments are based on my observations, On what observation did you make that comment about me? If this is the level of 'debate' is it any wonder so many of us are worried about the future?

I think the blustering unwillingness to discuss a second, more informed vote and a sudden touching belief in democracy as observed in many Brexit supporters says a lot about the situation. By more informed I am not inferring that Brexit supporters are ill-informed, more that we all know more now than we did in June 2016, can't really see why this is such a problem?

It isn't an arrogant assumption nonnie, it's an assumption in the same way that your post makes assumptions about Leavers.

Yes- leavers here have said again and again that immigration, and in particular those of very different ethnic groups- was not their motivation. And I trust that for many, that is the case.

But it is clear that it was, for a great many- and UKIP posters were disgustingly racist (reminded me of those by the extreme right in Switzerland ).

But back to the title, I am still not sure if it is 'bullying remainers' or 'bullying remainers'. These are the real bullying leavers and traitors at the moment:

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46243745?fbclid=IwAR1WgLsu-Oi3_5-2T7ses_EBYkNl1Aipm9El7ShGPzU14ERf5dr68Q1W9x4

Smileless your comment "And if the vote went the same way, would you accept it? I very much doubt it." assuming you know anything about me is a recurrent theme of Leavers. You have no idea what I would do in the event of a second vote going the same way as the first, I have said nothing to give you any reason for that arrogant assumption.

I'm afraid it seems that Leavers only act like this because they don't have good enough arguments to back up their attitude of 'I voted this way, I am right, I'm sticking with it regardless of any proof I made a mistake, I'm not listening because I am right whether or not I am right, I've got my head in the sand'. Yes, that sound harsh and I'm sure it doesn't apply to all Leavers but it does seem that they don't have a good argument for leaving whatever the outcome.

crystal that is really worrying but not the first time I have heard or seen the same. I wonder just how many people voted Leave because they didn't want 'brown people' in the UK? I got into a debate with a friend of a friend on Facebook during the referendum and it was clear that his whole reason for voting Leave was brown people. Eventually I asked him which EU country he thought they all came from. Didn't hear from him again! There are times, not many, when I think that perhaps we should take some sort of test before being allowed to vote in a referendum so at least we can prove we have some small idea of what it is about. This is the reason I think we should have another vote so at least people will be told what they are actually voting for and not a whole load of unrealistic claims.

I chose to remain------for my GGC's futures. To leave would be disastrous for them and other children facing a future of uncertainty.
Economically we have to weigh up what's best and as I see it although things are tough now they'll be a jolly sight tougher " on our own " as a country without the backing from the EU.
The cost of staying in is minimal against the whole worth of this country and will only be a fraction compared to the help and support in every way ( should there be a war ) that our European neighbours would provide.
Stop the hostilities and accept what is best for this SMALL country.

I'm afraid that sentence really upset me- it is because they have no choice- that we should have chosen very carefully what is best for their future.

I have read and 'enjoyed' reading the very thought- provoking debate on this thread. It has made me rethink some aspects of the situation we now face. I remain a remainer, as to leave without a good deal will affect and is already affecting my family a great deal.

But the comment which took my breath away is Luckyleg's9 writing... 'I am not worried about my grandchildren as they will have no choice.'

The young stand to lose the most. That they have no choice and that the choices we have enjoyed will be taken away, makes me very fearful for our young people. The young are our future.

David I 'd be interested to know how you think Corbyn could work in league with Sturgeon.
There was a suggestion that Ruth D should become Tory leader but it was explained why she couldn't (apart from simply not wanting to).

Varian. The distinct impression I get is that although around half the country want to stay in the EU very few are actively campaigning.
My own 23 yr old grandson voted leave, why, to send all those f@@&ing foreigners home, this is the mentality that a very large section of the leave voters have. MPs are no better, a very large majority wanted to remain before the referendum, now of course they have changed and are "reflecting voters wishes".

I am thinking the probable least worst outcome is for Corbyn to take over in league with Sturgeon and agree a very soft deal. Not a palatable option but TM ( or whoever ) is going to loose a vote of no confidence, there is one spark of hope though. The SNP may insist on a second vote, labour will accept that as a price for support.

The current mess is just the start, trade negotiations begin in April after Brexit day, they are going to be just as acrimonious, every sector will be fought tooth and nail. Or at least attempted the EU hold all the cards, we will end up with an EFTA deal, no more.

Bank queue with TV on rolling news with latest Brexit u turn, one ( mixed race English) woman turned to the person next to her and said “ This is such a waste of time and money”, the other woman agreed. Elderly ( white ) woman in front of them turned round and said “ if you don’t like it you can go back where you came from”.
Another incident - young British Asian woman serving in a shop berated by older British man for the wait who said “ I voted to get rid of people like you”. I know these are low level incidents but they are seemingly commonplace and acceptable now. And people talk about “bullying remainers” . I hope the leavers on here feel comfortable being associated with people like the above.

Trying to compare the result of a general election to the referendum is ompletely ludicrous. All the way through a Parliament ( and even more so when the majority is small) compromises and concessions are made re the aspirations that were in the manufesto. Some things in the manifesto never happen, some things happen that were not in the manifesto. Circumstances change and governments have to respond. There is a process of iteration for the duration of the Parliament. How on Earth is this the same thing as the referendum result?. In some ways a GE isn’t accepted by everyone because pressure groups,lobbyists etc will fight a manifesto commitment once the Government starts to legislate on it and often a Government will also begin to realise that they will have to compromise and/ or there were issues that hadn’t been considered in the bald manifesto promise. This is how democracy works. With the referendum result once we’ve left we can’t realistically change that can we as we go along as we do after a GE.

Which laws have been “overturned by Brussels”?
Have we lost our “whole identity”? In what way?We still speak English/ eat fish n chips/ have the same flag/ same useless electoral system/ political parties / as infinitum
Such sweeeping generalisations/ beliefs have got us into this current mess

I've never before had complete strangers hurl abuse at me which is what has happened since the referendum. This country is now at war with itself and I fear for the future....[by the way, I'm not aware of remainers hurling abuse at people in the street but stand to be corrected if anyone has had this happen to them].

Why do people who do not live in our country think they have the right to advise on our affairs, especially when they live outside the EU themselves.
Mostly Harmless, with respect, I do full understand who and what a Brexiter is. That doesn't mean I agree with their bullying tactics to their leader. Any respect I had for test introverted Rees Mogg has gone.
In the pub yesterday having lunch, it was buzzing with the support being shown for Theressa May, realising we needed the best deal possible now, which did surprise me as it was usually on the side of the remaining view. As long as we leave next March with or without a deal I will be happy. I am not worried about my grandchildren as they will have no choice. I didn't when forty years ago the country agreed to Free Trade and not the loss of our whole identity and having our laws overturned by Brussels.

Smileless but that’s the whole point. General elections come every five years at the most, so within five years you have the chance to vote the government out.
But this referendum is the first voting chance since 1975. A 40 year interval. A lot of irrevocable damage can be done to our country in forty years.

You are so wrong, Davidhs. A no-deal brexit would be utterly catastrophic for our country, our children and grandchildren.

You are right that the poorest (many of whom were conned into voting for brexit) would be hit the hardest but unless you are a billionaire "disaster capitalist" waiting like a vulture to pick at the bones of our economy, it would certainly affect you.

I do not find it at all difficult to be a passionate Remainer. We need a People's vote with the choice between TM's deal, which is much worse than the deal we have, a catastrophic "no-deal" or keeping the great deal we have now, where we can continue to exercise our vote and our influence in the EU to change it for the better.

I find it very difficult to be a passionate remainder, unable to call leavers anything worse than misguided fools. If we get a second vote I will vote remain again but I am reconciled to leave with no deal, it won't affect us much but I will guarantee the poorest will be hit the worst.

But Nonnie, if you vote for a particular party that gets elected and then doesn't live up to the promises made in their manifesto, you wouldn't demand another general election would you. You'd wait for the next general election.

I'm a leaver and I'm not afraid of another vote, but along with the 17 plus million who voted to leave, I don't expect my vote to be overturned any more than you would, if the result had been to remain.

And if the vote went the same way, would you accept it? I very much doubt it.

Possibly so GrandmaMoira, but it really struck me that those posters who were pro remain were seemed unable to articulate their anger or irritation, about the situation, without calling names. It just seemed to diminish their credibility somehow.

Same here Moira nothing rational from the leavers, just the same old, same old, we voted we are right!

Chewbacca, maybe it is different in my area as we are strongly Remain and I find it's the Brexiters who are rude.

I've just read some posts on our local area's Facebook page. The topic was, predictably, Brexit. Of the 58 posts currently visible, roughly 50/50 are pro leave/pro remain. But what was glaringly obvious was the number of abusive names the pro remainers called the pro leavers: scum, moron, pillock, cretin, UKIP loving shit and racist scumbag. I haven't yet seen any pro Brexiter's post reduced to using insulting names. It was so bad that an administrator turned off anyone adding more comments.

The name European Research Group sums it up, that is not what they are about, not research at all they are a pressure group about leaving the EU. Why not label it what it is unless you are ashamed?