An outsider's view of British politics

I certainly think that the televising of PMQs does the image of our parliamentary system no favours. The infantile behaviour shown there is what people remember. I don't care for it because it trivialises Parliament.

Much of the real serious work of parliament is done in the Committees. They are filmed too, but I don't think many people bother to watch it.

I agree with you, varian about the undemocratic nature of our FPTP system. We should endeavour to make voting more meaningful for everyone, not just voters in marginal constituencies.

I expect Sri Lankans think the UK's politics are very tame.

www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/nov/15/sri-lanka-mps-fight-in-parliament-as-political-turmoil-continues-video

Jalima1108, I'll just need to check the papers before I answer that. Yep, its still ScoMo - for the mo!

I agree with varian about FPTP but I'm not sure how best to change that.
So far as bullying, braying behaviour in the HoC, I can't believe it results in the best possible outcome. There is a video circulating on line this morning of Labour front bencher Clive Lewis mimicking shooting himself as he sits behind a colleague who is making an impassioned speech. Some commentators are incensed he can 'joke' about suicide, others suggesting he felt his colleague was being verbose.

The HoC is debating serious issues. It's possible to introduce some humour into debates but sneering, unprofessional behaviour needs stopping. Having said that, given the accusations about it being a bullying culture, maybe that's too much to ask for.,

It is a choice - we either have FPTP (which I believe is undemocratic) that almost guarantees an opposition to challenge the government; or we have some sort of PR that results in a coalition where opposition is behind closed doors as they try and thrash out compromises.

But Lucky how Democratic was it for TM to thrash out a deal with the DUP behind closed doors which involved a massive bribe of our money in return for 10 just 10MPs support that none of us on the mainland had even been able to vote for. The 2010-15 government also was a coalition so FPTP doesn’t seem to be working very well now does it? Only a majority government in 2 of the last 8 years.

Yep, its still ScoMo - for the mo!
for how long, I wonder!

Quite apart from the views of those living outside the UK, just consider those EU citizens who live here, many for most of their lives, working, paying taxes and contributing to our country in many ways. These folk (about 3.8 million) were not permitted to vote in the EU referendum which affected them more than anyone else, nor can they vote in general elections, and now Theresa May accuses them of being "queue jumpers" (a venal crime in British society).

Read this empassioned letter to the PM from Alex Andreou, a Greek man who has lived in the UK since 1990, and consider how unfeeling, indeed un-Christian Theresa May is and how far we have sunk from being a nation that valued "fair play"-

"I'm not a 'queue jumper', I'm a hard-working European who loves Britain - and you're causing me misery"

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/theresa-may-im-not-a-queue-jumper-im-a-hard-working-european-who-loves-britain-and-youre-causing-me-misery/ar-BBPVEjS

Well I ask you how should other countries see British politics at the moment?. A lot feel that the British are fools leaving a group of countries which is trying to move forward in what will be a dangerouse age with mounting polution and chaotic weather conditions.

Perhaps we should also ask how the British see the politics of other countries.
Especially those which will have an influence on how Brexit is proceeding.

The Sri Lankan MP's came to blows in their chamber. At least there has been no brawling in the HoC, at least nit recently.

Other countries are entitled to think what they like, but I think some of us are more than uncomfortable at the prospect of eventually being a federal state run by Germany with its poodle France yapping along behind, particularly after Mrs Merkels latest speech in which she appears to be encouraging nations to ditch sovereignty in favour of all embracing loyalty to the greater good ie : our old friend Germany el al!
Errr, No thankyou!!!

Spain didn't do so well either, recently!
Didn't some of the Catalan politicians get arrested when they tried to hold a referendum?
I think they fled but faced charges including rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds.
One Catalonian woman said:
"How I would like to be Scottish!", a reference to the 2014 independence referendum longingly admired by many Catalans.

Sweden:
Nationalist vote set to shatter Swedish calm
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45269773

The far right has been gaining power in many countries in the EU - which is very disturbing.

People in glass houses etc.

Steve Bannon’s political operation to help rightwing populists triumph in next year’s European parliamentary elections is in disarray after he conceded that his campaign efforts could be illegal in most of the countries in which he planned to intervene.

The former chief strategist to Donald Trump has spent months trying to recruit European parties to his Brussels-based group, the Movement, which he promised would operate as kind of a political consultancy for like-minded parties campaigning in the bloc-wide vote in May 2019.

But the Guardian has established that Bannon would be barred or prevented from doing any meaningful work in nine of the 13 countries in which he is seeking to campaign, according to national electoral bodies and relevant ministries. Confronted with the findings, Bannon acknowledged he was taking legal advice on the matter.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/21/steve-bannons-rightwing-europe-operation-undermined-by-election-laws

lemongrove, no Sweden hasn't always had a coalition government but it is a fact that they are used to having one. Their whole political system is based on consesus and coalition building. This doesn't just apply to political life in Sweden. They value their 'samarbete' (=working together). The need to work together can be easily explained in a cold climate with few people. In the past people often lived far away from each other. It helped to stick together and work things out.
Of course, things have changed in Sweden as everywhere else but there is still this need for 'samarbete'.

My OP referred to one Swedish journalist's opinion that there is a culture of confrontation in British politics. Some of you agreed, others delivered tit for tat. My opinion is that the way our representatives are conducting themselves at the moment is a disgrace. The people deserve better.

There is of course a culture of confrontation in British politics. The behaviour of some MPs in the H of C is abysmal. It's nothing to do with democracy simply of historical cultural behaviour. It's behaviour which is nutured in public schools and university debating chambers. There was a thread sometime ago about proposals to make debates less confontational in some universities by introducing 'jazz hands". It's behaviour which is characteristically male and may be one reason why there are still so few women who stay in politics.

A large percentage of the British population can’t stand foreigners and make it quite plain. It’s all over the media, the newspapers and sometimes the way you’re treated once you open your mouth.

What’s most astonishing is the double think, they’re proud of their multi-cultural society but yet they want to close the borders and keep people out. Their immigration system is locked up so tight it’s just not possible for Americans, Canadians or others from English-speaking countries to move there unless you’re wealthy or marry a Brit.

On the one hand, they’ll be welcoming to outsiders, on the other hand they ‘tut-tut’ at being overrun with foreigners. They have a special disdain for Eastern Europeans (except the ones that work hard). What’s most confusing is the distinction between ‘good foreigners’ (i.e. white ones) and ‘bad foreigners’ (i.e. brown ones). We’re all foreigners. Britain has been continually changed by foreign influences from people coming to live there. While there are recognizable problems with integration throughout Britain, overall being open to foreigners is a GOOD THING.

www.anglotopia.net/british-identity/humor/british-culture-9-things-i-still-dont-get-britain/

Believe it or not, this quotation is from a magazine for Anglophiles!

In the opinion of the Washington Post- "there’s no good way out of the Brexit disaster"-

At the heart of the chaos engulfing the United States’ closest ally is the contradiction between the vision sold to voters who supported leaving the European Union in a June 2016 referendum and the reality of the deal Ms. May came home with. Britons were told they could regain sovereignty from E.U. governance without suffering any economic consequences. In fact, any Brexit will leave the country poorer. That is true of the deal being offered by Ms. May. It is even more true of the “no-deal Brexit” that could occur next March 29 if Parliament does not act, causing massive disruption, including shortages of basic goods.

Yet even that is not the most dire prospect. Any deal that leaves Britain out of Europe’s single market could create a border between the two Irelands and threaten the peace accord that ended decades of violence in the North. Ms. May’s plan provides that if Britain and the European Union are unable to agree during a transition period on a relationship that avoids a hard border, Britain would remain in the E.U. customs union indefinitely. That would force London to continue observing E.U. regulations and prevent it from striking its own trade deals with other nations.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/theres-no-good-way-out-of-the-brexit-disaster/2018/12/10/7606aace-fc9b-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html?utm_term=.88e09d6a9cc0

Davidh said PR would lead to " being held to ransom by small small parties with crazy demands."

Like the DUP holding the Conservatives in power for money rather than principles?

Most civilised democratic countries use some form of PR to elect their representatives.

There are many advantages - no-one need feel their vote is wasted because they live in a "safe seat", the number of representatives elected is in direct proportion to the number of votes for that party which seems fair, and yes, it does often result in coalition governments, which means that parties must co-operate, sometimes compromise and cannot act like an "elected dictatorship".

Think back to our coalition government of 2010-2015. It was so much better than the unfettered Tory government, elected by a minority under FPTP, that we have had since.

Finally Theresa May's deal gets a resounding endorsement- from none other than the man behind brexit, Vladimir Putin'. This champion of democracy absolutely agrees that it would be undemocratic to allow the British people to vote on the deal.

With friends like this,,,,

I'm with Mairi Black on this Westminster is an out of date mens club with pompous old bores and privileged privately educated mainly men behaving as if they were still at school.Time it was brought sharply into the 21st century .The behaviour of MP's is appalling and if it were children in the playground it wouldn't be allowed.So why DO we allow them to behave like this?

Finally Theresa May's deal gets a resounding endorsement- from none other than the man behind brexit, Vladimir Putin'.

I think this need a new thread, varian.

Remember the fuss about Obama's 'intervention'. I wonder what Leavers feel about being endorsed by Putin?

On the run up to the referendum Remain was supported by the leaders of all our political parties except UKIP, the BNP and the DUP.

Amongst foriegn politicians Remain was supported , not only by President Obama,but the leaders of all the other 27 EU countries, all our allies and the leaders of India, China, Brazil, all the Commonwealth countries etc.

The only foreign politicians who supported Leave were Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump and the French fascist Marine le Pen.

It seems that Leave voters who took the trouble to learn tbis were happy with the company they were keeping.

Worth a view:
www.facebook.com/566279740491151/posts/589628054822986/