Brexit induced poverty. Worth it?

whistling his way to some fancy mansion. If I do something wrong, I am mortified and worry about it for days.

So strange.

No Nicenanny3, that title goes to Cameron who got us into this buggersmuddle in the first place and then walked off whistling!

She's had 2 years plotting with Olly Robbins making out she was trying to get a good deal, no deal is better than a Bad Deal was her mantra and I and many others were taken in by her but we won't be fooled again. She's a Remainer always has been and she has spent 2 years conniving with the EU to make it look like we were leaving and carrying out the wishes of the people but we were leaving in name only, she's played a blinder she will go down in history as the most dishonest PM ever.

I just want to wake up one day and find this nightmare over [and by that I mean I want a Peoples Vote and Brexit to be reversed]. I can make no sense of it, especially when the time, money and energy could have been spent doing good things...

I can't believe that some on here still think that a crash out Brexit is a good idea. Expert opinion on all sides has stated that this will be catastrophic. Also a bit bemused by the very defensive statements made by a couple of Brexit supporters, if you are so sure of your vote, why so aggressive? Please stop blaming the EU for the austerity measures which were due to Osborne and Cameron policy, not anything at all to do with the EU. But there again, Farage, Boris, Gove, Leadsom never let the truth get in the way of their campaign did they?

Thank you Labaik. It IS about real people and many of us are already feeling the effects.

Your point about project fear becoming project reality is very astute and it's impossible to imagine that anybody truly wanted the crisis we are now in.

I would rather a no deal than this deal.

Trading on WTO, no more hiked tariffs by the EU.

I don't think she's been singlehandedly been working on this deal for 2 years; she's had lots of people expert in this field [and I 'm not talking about David Davies et al] and this is the best that can be achieved given the circumstances because project fear is now project reality. Brexit isn't working, it was never going to work and this is the result. Hope everyone who voted leave is happy with that. We're in the worst mess I can ever remember and I don't seem to recall it being that bad prior to the referendum [other than because of austerity cuts that were nothing to do with the EU]. I hope that gillybob's business isn't a casualty of all this, because we're talking about real people and real lives and people are suffering because of Brexit and half of the population doesn't give a damn...

Have you not yet learnt that Theresa May will say whatever it takes to get backing for her crappy deal. What happened to no deal is better than a bad deal? Suddenly this bad deal is the best we can get, well of course it is when her idea of negotiating is to say tell me what you want what you really want to the EU and then add a few extras to sweeten the deal for the EU. I'm a leaver and I'd vote leave again and again no matter what anyone says and this deal needs to be kicked out asap it's a pile of crap that she's wasted two years achieving. What an absolute waste of time it's been. A nodding dog could have got a better deal than this. So if crashing out with no deal is what it takes then bring it on.

I think people voted/didn't vote for all sorts of reasons. There was very little clear information available. I am not doubting peoples intelligence but perhaps some leaflets with points for and against might have helped

I think Cameron took a gamble to big himself up and it didn't work out the way he expected. Remember the shots of his government the next day, totally out of their depth.

I am no fan of the extreme left either before anybody jumps on me.
Immigration was a factor. I have spoked to people who genuinely believed there would be ne need for ESOL classes as " they are all going back"

I'm prepared to be flamed here and possibly accused of being selfish.

I am fortunate to have some savings, life wasn't always like that but in my retirement I have been very lucky. These are savings/investments that will never be added to.
I wanted to share some of this with dear sons, each who could make very good use of a wee cash injection.
The sons are unaware of this plan.

Not to be.... the value has dropped beyond what is acceptable and I just can't do it.
Thankyou Brexit.

Of course Brexit and our economy is about bigger bigger things, but it is the little individual things that can colour our thinking.

I voted to stay. My feelings very simply were that if something needs fixed let's sort it from the inside.

I took part in a webinar on Mumsnet yesterday where our questions were answered by panel of experts and they stated if we accept May's deal then we can only do trade deals on goods with other countries closely aligned to EU Custom's Union or in negotiations with EU. That effectively means only limited trade deals with US, Australia and New Zealand and other countries we were hoping to strike up trade deals with. Different with services though. If we leave with no deal we can trade freely with any other country and potentially with EU too. Many countries we already trade with through EU such as Canada have clearly stated they will continue to trade with us on exactly the same terms are currently do whether we leave EU with trade deal or no deal.

Some say that if we leave on WTO terms then we can set tariffs to zero and imported goods will become cheaper as no longer have tariffs to pay ie clothing and food. At the moment we pay high tariffs on these goods form EU and have to charge 20% VAT if we left we could chose to stop this.

Take it with a giant bucket of salt. It all depends upon the question being asked ie how much will each option lose. This does not include how much will each option gain. If we leave with no deal obviously we lose a lot but then this calculation does not include any future trade deals with other countries where we will gain. Hammond thinks the electorate are stupid.

Well they won't want to publish the full legal advice will they because then we would all definitely know what a rotten stitch up this so called deal is. Please someone get rid of Theresa May as PM or I will never vote Conservative again.

I'll never understand those who voted to leave.

Surely the first step to establish trust in this, or any deal/progression, would be to publish the full legal advice?

But everything I've read so far says that leaving with a no deal will be catastrophic financially for this country. And this isn't project fear; these are independent surveys that have been done. It was the only deal she could get because of all of the legal problems leaving the EU would cause and because people ignored [and are still ignoring]the situation with Ireland. Are people still happy to vote leave knowing that 'the troubles' could come back. Do they not care about people that may lose their jobs? I really feel that most people that voted leave did so because of one particular subject that affected them [or they though might affect them] immigration, bureaucracy etc and gave no thought to people who might be badly affected.

Of course remainers voted so because of their own concerns stree and mine happened to be the jobs of my employees, my children and wider relatives almost all who work in retail or manufacturing .

Well said nicenanny, but I am convinced remainers are too conditioned to ever see past their own concerns.

Project Fear all over again people won't be taken in this time. Theresa May is a liar ? we've been conned by her but she's been found out, if this is such a good deal why is she having to travel up and down the country trying to sell it to us. It is the worse deal ever, it will get voted down and we will leave without a deal which in my opinion will be the best outcome. When I voted in the Referendum I voted to Leave not for a deal and to not be shackled to the EU for ever more.

Plus The age of Retirement being raised to 66-67 and higher is not exactly going to help youth unemployment is it ?

The EU has more youth unemployment than UK.

I have never managed to work out why this is a reason for leaving the EU. Can anyone explain?

Of course, we all know (or ought to know) that the UK employment figures are fiddled to the extent of being meaningless. One hour of 'work' per week gets you in 'employed' figures

All these doom and gloom predictions over the last 2 years haven't got the best accuracy record.

Lowest growth rate in the EU (from among the highest pre-ref) and falling inward investment? Businesses moving, or preparing to move to Europe? Businesses closing down or laying off people because of Brexit related loss of earnings? The list is pretty extensive. But hey, we're doing absolutely fine...

it is this Governments inadequate negotiations that I have a problem with.

Just what did you expect the government to achieve (and just saying 'a better deal' is no answer)?

My question is..... who could have done any better? I bet the mainland Europe manufacturers are rubbing their hands together .

I'm 100% a Leaver but this 'deal' is the worst ever made by anybody. May and Hammond are both Remainers and this 'deal' is worse than remaining, if that's even possible.