Gransnet forums

News & politics

Brexit induced poverty. Worth it?

(171 Posts)
MaizieD Wed 28-Nov-18 08:49:05

Yet again we are told that Brexit will make us poorer (Chancellor R4 this morning.

I wonder how many of our Gnet Leavers wil be happy to take a hit on their incomes/spending power for 'the cause'.

And how they feel about condemning half their fellow citizens to unwanted diminished economic prospects? (The Remain half, I mean.)

mcem Wed 28-Nov-18 09:24:43

Chancellor added that although all households and the country's economy would suffer, there is more to it!
Leavers may believe it's a price worth paying for the sake of their political principles!

(And possibly for their patriotic ideals? My words not PH's)

Riverwalk Wed 28-Nov-18 09:28:04

Yes Hammond's admission was quite startling considering he and May are trying to flog the deal to the country.

I just don't get it hmm

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 09:35:33

I think perhaps the meaning behind it all is that those working in manufacturing will suffer as it seems inevitable that there will be job losses . Quickly followed by retail (already desperate) as working class people struggle to make ends meet and have less and less disposable income . As usual the “I’m alright Jacks” will be exactly that .

Lazigirl Wed 28-Nov-18 09:37:24

I really don't think the country can suffer much more "austerity". Social institutions, hospitals, most basic services are suffering because of cuts. Every day there is a new crisis which goes largely unnoticed because of Brexit, so it's not just the money in our pockets that will take a hit. I think there will be massive civil unrest if Brexit goes ahead. Our country which was divided before the Referendum is now completely polarised and I can't see the rift healing any time soon. Very depressing outlook sadly so whichever way it goes the damage is done.

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 09:39:42

As a remain voter I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone could have voted to leave . Did they not see this pile of sh*t heading our way ? Did they think France,Germany etc. would pave our way out with gold ?

Teetime Wed 28-Nov-18 09:48:40

Well being in the EU didn't help us out in the financial crisis or stop us having to endure austerity. I haven't joined in this debate much as I dont like to be around negative people. For me its a situational argument- being in the EU badly affected our public services who were overburdened with bureaucracy - every day yet another directive would land on my desk that took precious time and resources away from patients I voted Leave and would do so again because of this. Please dont bother to threaten me with all the moral blackmail you indulge in on here.

Riverwalk Wed 28-Nov-18 09:55:06

How can MPs have a meaningful vote on this in 12 days when the Government are holding back on the full legal advice given; and the Home Secretary has said he won't have the new immigration rules ready?

Immigration paid a large part in the Brexit vote.

maryeliza54 Wed 28-Nov-18 09:58:48

So our public services weren’t affected by austerity cuts then Teetime? Silly me

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 09:59:45

I don’t think anyone is threatening anyone Teetime and I respect that the majority voted to leave . The few young people I know ( who bothers to vote) voted leave for reasons of immigration nothing more . I don’t think any of us really had enough correct information as to the consequences although ( working in manufacturing) I could see a leave vote was going to be disastrous for industry .

oldbatty Wed 28-Nov-18 10:00:52

Lazigirl, I agree but I wonder if people are too beaten down to protest.

When I mentioned such concerns on this forum I was mocked.

I also feel concerned that whilst government has been obsessing over Brexit they have not been doing their job. Also is instability not an opportunity for more damage from outside? Anyhow, as I say I was basically ridiculed for expressing such opinions and fears.

MaizieD Wed 28-Nov-18 10:02:32

Well being in the EU didn't help us out in the financial crisis or stop us having to endure austerity

Believe it or not but the EU has no power at all over how a member state with a sovereign currency (i.e not the euro) runs its economy. The 'austerity' is the sole product of tory ideology. Why you think they should have 'helped us out' is a mystery.

Please dont bother to threaten me with all the moral blackmail you indulge in on here.

So glad to know that you voted to make us poorer for the sake of making your job easier. (though I must admit that your reason is an interesting one that I've never heard before. 203 new EU directives directly affecting patient care a year, then? hmm)

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 10:03:40

My DH and I lost almost everything during the financial crisis. Our home, caravan, pensions...... and we ploughed everything we had and more into keeping our small business going and protecting our employees jobs . Was it all in vain ? Yes probably. Were we fools? Yes definitely.

oldbatty Wed 28-Nov-18 10:03:54

There was very little information around at the time. Teetime, your comments seem reasonable and based on your own experience.

I think the way it was done and the motivation behind it ( basically Cameron showing off) were all wrong.

Sophiesox Wed 28-Nov-18 10:06:16

Teetime, like you I haven’t joined in the debate for the same reasons. It seems we’re not allowed to express our opinions unless they are the ‘correct’ opinions. We are as intelligent as everyone else, but have to take a constant battering on a daily basis. I respect the opinions of others, we don’t have to always agree to be polite to one another!

GrannyGravy13 Wed 28-Nov-18 10:08:43

The EU has more youth unemployment than UK.

All these doom and gloom predictions over the last 2 years haven't got the best accuracy record.

The EU is apparently unassailable, anyone remember the Titanic that was "unsinkable"

I would still vote leave, it is this Governments inadequate negotiations that I have a problem with.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 28-Nov-18 10:12:02

gillybob, we also have a small family run business, and yes the financial crisis was hard. I do not think our sacrifices were in vain. We just had to hunker down and carry on and slowly things are improving, little steps at a time.

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 10:23:49

Not sure what business you are in Grannygravy ( not need to disclose on an open forum) but I am seeing a huge downturn in manufacturing due to Brexit uncertainty . A few of our regular customers are in the process of moving some of their ops back to mainland Europe and scaling down their UK activities ( at least for now) . If I am honest I wish we had let it all go years ago .

suzied Wed 28-Nov-18 10:24:17

It funny how brexiteers claim the EU is too invasive and too interfering in "sovereignty" of individual countries then moan when the EU doesn't "help out" or get involved in domestic issues of individual countries. We all know that we were promised improved public services with all the money we would be "saving", that the EU needed us more than we needed them and we would be bound to get a great deal. Leave voters may still be sure they are "correct" but its not looking that convincing at the moment.

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 10:25:37

Meant to add we are what is classed as a 2nd/3rd tier manufacturer and are usually the first tier to suffer as everyone pulls up the draw bridge .

oldbatty Wed 28-Nov-18 10:28:08

It's one almighty mess for sure

Beau Wed 28-Nov-18 10:41:18

I'm 100% a Leaver but this 'deal' is the worst ever made by anybody. May and Hammond are both Remainers and this 'deal' is worse than remaining, if that's even possible.

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 10:45:13

My question is..... who could have done any better? I bet the mainland Europe manufacturers are rubbing their hands together .

MaizieD Wed 28-Nov-18 10:51:49

The EU has more youth unemployment than UK.

I have never managed to work out why this is a reason for leaving the EU. Can anyone explain?

Of course, we all know (or ought to know) that the UK employment figures are fiddled to the extent of being meaningless. One hour of 'work' per week gets you in 'employed' figures shock

All these doom and gloom predictions over the last 2 years haven't got the best accuracy record.

Lowest growth rate in the EU (from among the highest pre-ref) and falling inward investment? Businesses moving, or preparing to move to Europe? Businesses closing down or laying off people because of Brexit related loss of earnings? The list is pretty extensive. But hey, we're doing absolutely fine...

it is this Governments inadequate negotiations that I have a problem with.

Just what did you expect the government to achieve (and just saying 'a better deal' is no answer)?

gillybob Wed 28-Nov-18 10:53:55

Plus The age of Retirement being raised to 66-67 and higher is not exactly going to help youth unemployment is it ?