What the people want - YouGov

The lying leaving campaign fooled many many decent people into voting for something which could harm them for the rest of their lives.

This is the remarkable moment a Leave voter cried live on air after admitting to James O'Brien he was wrong to back Brexit.

forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2311859/leave-voter-in-tears

In Sir John Major’s speech to the Institute of International and European Affairs in Dublin he says-

"We need to protect the economic wellbeing of the British people. We need to protect our national interest. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that – to do so – we need to revoke Article 50 with immediate effect. "

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/john-major-we-need-to-revoke-article-50-with-immediate-effect-2/

If we have a second referendum. What is there to stop people wanting a third one in a years time when everything is further on, and another once we have been out for a year..... and so on ad finitum.

Not so sure they will 'change their minds' Labaik because what they voted for is not available. They will be asked different questions so will have different responses. No one voted to be poorer or ruin our economy

And, if it's democratic for the Conservatives to change their mind on who they want to be leader, why can't the voting public change their mind about Brexit?

Well said varian. If the public are not allowed to vote there will be chaos and possibly uprisings. No one voted for this deal, we were lied to. I have said many times that if Leavers are so sure that they are right they have nothing to fear from a vote on the deal.

This country is being controlled/manipulated by the ERG. So much for 'taking back control'. Decent Conservatives [of which there are many I've come to realise over the past couple of years] must be horrified by what's happening to their party.

Of course we should have a vote on the final Brexit deal. Because otherwise, we’re giving a free pass to the Brexit campaign of 2016 to say whatever they want, regardless of whether it’s achievable.

The Brexiteers could have promised 100% employment, free homes for everyone and class sizes of 10 if they wanted to. And then when the public voted for Brexit and none of this occurred, they could just say it’s too late. Brexit means Brexit. Anything else is frustrating the result of the referendum.

There comes a point when, if what was promised before the referendum is nothing like what has been achieved in reality, that mandate needs to be held to account. We need to know if the public support the actual Brexit which is staring them in the face – rather than the one which was pitched to them two years ago on completely different terms. We clearly reached that point a long time ago.

The Brexit campaign was based on a vision of Brexit which just hasn’t happened. £350 million to the NHS per week? A generous trade deal with the EU? An economically more prosperous country? None of that has happened.

If the Leave Campaign had campaigned for May’s Brexit Deal, or for No Deal, they would clearly have lost under either circumstance. That’s why I don’t like it when people justify a People’s Vote by saying that the public have a right to change their mind. This isn’t about changing minds. This Brexit was never voted for in the first place.

Our Prime Minister doesn’t support Brexit. Our Parliament doesn’t support Brexit. The only reason that we are pursuing this policy is because it is “what the people want”. When so much has changed since the vote in 2016, shouldn’t we at least check that this really is “what the people want”? What’s the harm – from a democratic point of view? If the public really do want this version of Brexit then they will vote for it. No one is overturning anything. The public will get their way.

www.libdemvoice.org/

Day6 "I am amazed that so many Remainers aren't challenged on their assertions that most people who voted Leave would, if asked again, change their minds and want to remain in the EU." Perhaps it is because of the statistics in the YouGov poll?

As I have said many times the really democratic thing to do would be to ask people to vote on the actual deal and, when they understand what it is, decide whether to accept it or stay in the EU. What could be more democratic? Anything else would be far more divisive. If so many Leave voters are sure they are in the majority then they have nothing to fear so I wonder why they don't want another vote?

For years now we have been told by the Tory Eurosceptics that the European Union was about to inplode whenever there were problems.

However, through successive Greek crisis, the Spain crisis and others the EU has continued and grown. Theresa May toured several Member State capitals throughout the Summer in an attempt to garner support for Britains leave position. On each occasion, TM has come away "empty-handed".

Therefore it is evident that there is far more support among the other twenty-seven member states for the current EU structure than the leave leaders would wish us to believe.

Time these leave people woke up. We are where we are because Britain agreed and signed up to all that Europe now is, and they are not about to give that up just because Britain now wants to renege on all it signed up to and leave.

Hear hear crystaltipps!

I don’t think many outside the U.K. are gazing in envy at our current political meltdown. The reason we want a negotiated settlement with the EU is that we rely on them for essential goods and services and wish to maintain those channels. Plus they are our closest neighbours. Anyone with half a brain would realise that the sensible thing to do is to disrupt as little as possible. May’s WA is the best fudge we can hope for other than remaining. We can’t always have what we wish for. I’d like a mansion with an ocean view but I have settled for a terraced house in the suburbs. We may wish Brittania ruled the waves and we could have complete sovereignty but that isn’t possible as we rely on others in today’s world. Even when Brittainia did rule the waves we did that by exploiting other countries.

I think you are right Day6 and of course we are not a laughing stock as some like to think on here, in fact the world is really not that interested in us being in or out of the EU. Those countries who are interested in the outcome, will be watching closely though, and one or two may well be having ideas about leaving as well.
The EU were always going to make things as difficult as possible for that very reason.

Funny, isn't it, that we try to leave an organisation but have to pay billions to do so ( which is fair enough of you have obligations to honour, I suppose) and then, rather than leave, we attempt to renegotiate a trading deal with said organisation.

We haven't really tried to leave, have we?

We are merely trying to unshackle ourselves from bits that don't suit us, offend us or which don't work for us.

I'd say the EU has become the focus of consternation and has people from all over the world wondering why all the wrangling to break free?

Has this exercise in futility been engineered by the EU to warn off other nations trying to loosen the ties? I know many people from various political persuasions who sympathise with May in having to deal with what became an enormous, complicated and prolonged negotiation. Could Corbyn have done any better?

Remainers go unchallenged when they say the UK is a laughing stock. Really? Those with no axe to grind are questioning the role of the EU negotiators and the whole EU set up given there is patent dissatisfaction and unrest within many other member states.

Day6 Quote [We entered a trade deal. Over the years the EU had morphed into so much more.] End Quote

Yes, and successive elected British governments freely signed up to the agreements and treaties that morphed the Common Market into the Europen Union.

However, Britain for the last two years has been demanding that the EU twenty-seven other member states tear up those agreements and treaties that we freely signed up to, just to accommodate the UK leaving and request also that they let us "cherry pick" what we wish to retain on the way out.

Then leavers wonder why the EU negotiators are unable to grant those demands and complain of Britain being "bullied".

Let's face it May and her negotiators have made us the laughing stock of the world, and we deserve to be so.

The EU has always been much much more than than a trading group. That was absolutely clear when we joined in 1973 and has remained so ever since. The trade deal argument is one made up after the facts to justify leaving.

If I hear that ridiculous phrase 'the will of the British people' one more time I may well do something unforgivable. The vote was to leave that is undoubted, but the margin was very small and cannot justify that constantly parroted phrase.

If the government were to be truly democratic ,the size of the remain vote should have been kept in mind through out the negotiations so that while we should leave, in the negotiations it should be remembered how big the remain vote was and the final deal should include some concessions to those who wished to stay in the EU.

For "persevering" read cussed.
And for her mantra "our focus is on..." read we are completely blinkered!

I too have stopped giving my opinion to YouGov. It wants to harvest all sorts of personal information with every questionnaire I find in my inbox.

I am amazed that so many Remainers aren't challenged on their assertions that most people who voted Leave would, if asked again, change their minds and want to remain in the EU.

I know of many who feel that our dealings over the last two years with Brussels have cemented their feelings that we MUST get out of the EU, that it's imperative.

Not only that, many, because of the referendum have researched sources regarding the way in which the EU operates and is heading, with regard to the melting pot of European countries, resources, industries, wealth, laws, work forces, systems, defences
and the desire to break down borders etc. It has become a terrifying, powerful behemoth of an organisation.

We entered a trade deal. Over the years the EU had morphed into so much more.

One of the main reasons why Scotland voted against independence was because they wanted to remain in the EU. I think it's disgraceful that they are now being made to leave when they voted overwhelmingly to stay. How can that be democratic?

Only up to a point, Nonnie. Any replacement PM would receive the same advice, but might be more (or less ) receptive to it.
A good point made in the papers today is that by constantly reiterating that she is ‘following the will of the people’, TM is able to absolve herself from any blame and carry on steamrollering down the track, which is another way of putting persevering.
I do agree, Jane, that she is hard working, but that really isn’t enough.

"She's not single handedly wrestled out the EU deal. She's a figurehead not all there is!!"
Exactly Jane. I can't see any other potential 'leader' getting anything better. The EU will always have the upper hand.

Jane10 I have been saying that over and over again on lots of threads. Didn't know anyone had taken any notice. If JC was in charge he would be using the same civil servants as TM with the same result. Why isn't that obvious to everyone?

She's not single handedly wrestled out the EU deal. She's a figurehead not all there is!!

Jane10 I respect TM for all her hard work but think she is blinkered. A politician should be able to admit when they have, with the best intentions, got it wrong. Unfortunately she cannot.

Interestingly I have spoken, quite recently, to two very senior people in the Home Office, one said she was the best boss ever and the other thought she was stubborn and pig headed!

I completely disagree winterwhite! She's hard working and perseveres despite being undermined on all sides in parliament. A surprising amount of the public respect her and her resolution to carry out what was democratically voted for.