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What the people want - YouGov

(36 Posts)
Nonnie Sat 08-Dec-18 11:17:38


paddyann Sat 08-Dec-18 12:03:28

Please note ALL consituencies in Scotland returned a REMAIN vote .OUR government is fighting for our right to remain despite being left out of discussions ,ignored and treated appallingly in and out of the HOC.Its not the will of OUR people to leave .

Nonnie Sat 08-Dec-18 12:13:25

From the map it looks as if it is not the will of many to leave. However, will the government take any notice?

Anniebach Sat 08-Dec-18 12:24:36

But we voted as the U.K. not as four seperate countries

Opal Sat 08-Dec-18 12:28:50

paddyann - got to say your post is bait, and I've bitten, against my better judgement. YOUR people voted to stay as part of OUR UK, and as such, they do not have a separate vote to us when it comes to Brexit. OUR people voted to leave and, as part of the UK, that includes YOUR people. What a divisive post yours is. I love Scotland and the Scottish people, I love Wales and the Welsh people, my Dad was a proud Welshman, but we are still ONE United Kingdom - which YOUR people voted to remain a part of - and as such, we have ALL decided to leave - it's a democracy. If Scotland want independence, they need to vote for it. As per a previous thread I started, I still don't understand why some Scots want independence from the UK but not from Brussels.

Anniebach Sat 08-Dec-18 12:33:19

I voted remain, I live in Wales, always have. Wales voted out, I accept the result because it was a U.K. vote ,

Granny23 Sat 08-Dec-18 13:33:37

Annie Ah BUT if Welsh people had kown what they know now would they have voted leave?

Opal It is really very simple. Scotland as a member of the Union that is the UK will always be outvoted at Westminster due to the huge disparity in numbers of MPs from English v Scottish Constituencies. Whereas an Independent Scotland in the EU would have a seat at the top table equal to every other country in the EU and could form alliances with other like minded countries on particular issues.

The People in Scotland had no vote in the decision to join up in the United Kingdom. That was decided by the nobility while the People rioted in the streets. There have been many attempts since to reverse this situation. Indeed at various times 'Home Rule' for Scotland was Liberal and Labour Policy. Currently their is a pro Independence (and pro EU) majority in the Scottish Parliament as voted in by the Scottish people and also among the Scottish MPs at Westminster. *

They did vote to join the EU, were warned during the 2014 referendum that to vote YES would mean they were out of the EU, only a NO vote would keep them in and finally voted strongly 65%, to REMAIN during the Brexit referendum.

* As a wee hypothetical aside - If England had decided to leave or dissolve the Union, it could all have been agreed at Westminster in an afternoon as English MPs can always out vote those from Wales NI and Scotland.

Jane10 Sat 08-Dec-18 13:50:52

Ignoring Pro SNP rant, YouGov is not exactly representative. I joined at one point as no one of the polls ever asked my opinion. I actually gave up doing the YouGov polls as they were so slanted or included lots of intrusive questions of commercial information to them.

Anniebach Sat 08-Dec-18 13:58:33

I agree Granny23 but the majority voted out .

Nonnie Sat 08-Dec-18 16:38:29

It now seems that the majority wish to remain in the EU but will they get the chance to prove it at the ballot box? That would be the democratic thing to do and it is about time TM realised it. If she doesn't allow a public vote on the deal she will go down in history as the PM who ruined our economy for years because she was too stubborn to listen to her own people.

winterwhite Sat 08-Dec-18 18:14:52

Nonnie I think that whatever happens TM will now -go down in history as the PM who ruined our economy for years- . She was also too stubborn to listen to her own advisers. Her party should have replaced her ages ago.

Jane10 Sat 08-Dec-18 18:28:05

I completely disagree winterwhite! She's hard working and perseveres despite being undermined on all sides in parliament. A surprising amount of the public respect her and her resolution to carry out what was democratically voted for.

Nonnie Sun 09-Dec-18 10:16:02

Jane10 I respect TM for all her hard work but think she is blinkered. A politician should be able to admit when they have, with the best intentions, got it wrong. Unfortunately she cannot.

Interestingly I have spoken, quite recently, to two very senior people in the Home Office, one said she was the best boss ever and the other thought she was stubborn and pig headed!

Jane10 Sun 09-Dec-18 10:18:10

She's not single handedly wrestled out the EU deal. She's a figurehead not all there is!!

Nonnie Sun 09-Dec-18 10:24:10

Jane10 I have been saying that over and over again on lots of threads. Didn't know anyone had taken any notice. If JC was in charge he would be using the same civil servants as TM with the same result. Why isn't that obvious to everyone?

Fennel Sun 09-Dec-18 11:50:59

"She's not single handedly wrestled out the EU deal. She's a figurehead not all there is!!"
Exactly Jane. I can't see any other potential 'leader' getting anything better. The EU will always have the upper hand.

winterwhite Sun 09-Dec-18 18:47:38

Only up to a point, Nonnie. Any replacement PM would receive the same advice, but might be more (or less ) receptive to it.
A good point made in the papers today is that by constantly reiterating that she is ‘following the will of the people’, TM is able to absolve herself from any blame and carry on steamrollering down the track, which is another way of putting persevering.
I do agree, Jane, that she is hard working, but that really isn’t enough.

Labaik Sun 09-Dec-18 20:54:21

One of the main reasons why Scotland voted against independence was because they wanted to remain in the EU. I think it's disgraceful that they are now being made to leave when they voted overwhelmingly to stay. How can that be democratic?

Day6 Sun 09-Dec-18 21:40:42

I too have stopped giving my opinion to YouGov. It wants to harvest all sorts of personal information with every questionnaire I find in my inbox.

I am amazed that so many Remainers aren't challenged on their assertions that most people who voted Leave would, if asked again, change their minds and want to remain in the EU.

I know of many who feel that our dealings over the last two years with Brussels have cemented their feelings that we MUST get out of the EU, that it's imperative.

Not only that, many, because of the referendum have researched sources regarding the way in which the EU operates and is heading, with regard to the melting pot of European countries, resources, industries, wealth, laws, work forces, systems, defences
and the desire to break down borders etc. It has become a terrifying, powerful behemoth of an organisation.

We entered a trade deal. Over the years the EU had morphed into so much more.

mcem Sun 09-Dec-18 21:48:30

For "persevering" read cussed.
And for her mantra "our focus is on..." read we are completely blinkered!

M0nica Sun 09-Dec-18 22:07:58

The EU has always been much much more than than a trading group. That was absolutely clear when we joined in 1973 and has remained so ever since. The trade deal argument is one made up after the facts to justify leaving.

If I hear that ridiculous phrase 'the will of the British people' one more time I may well do something unforgivable. The vote was to leave that is undoubted, but the margin was very small and cannot justify that constantly parroted phrase.

If the government were to be truly democratic ,the size of the remain vote should have been kept in mind through out the negotiations so that while we should leave, in the negotiations it should be remembered how big the remain vote was and the final deal should include some concessions to those who wished to stay in the EU.

Grandad1943 Sun 09-Dec-18 22:41:14

Day6 Quote [We entered a trade deal. Over the years the EU had morphed into so much more.] End Quote

Yes, and successive elected British governments freely signed up to the agreements and treaties that morphed the Common Market into the Europen Union.

However, Britain for the last two years has been demanding that the EU twenty-seven other member states tear up those agreements and treaties that we freely signed up to, just to accommodate the UK leaving and request also that they let us "cherry pick" what we wish to retain on the way out.

Then leavers wonder why the EU negotiators are unable to grant those demands and complain of Britain being "bullied".

Let's face it May and her negotiators have made us the laughing stock of the world, and we deserve to be so.

Day6 Sun 09-Dec-18 23:24:46

Funny, isn't it, that we try to leave an organisation but have to pay billions to do so ( which is fair enough of you have obligations to honour, I suppose) and then, rather than leave, we attempt to renegotiate a trading deal with said organisation.

We haven't really tried to leave, have we?

We are merely trying to unshackle ourselves from bits that don't suit us, offend us or which don't work for us.

I'd say the EU has become the focus of consternation and has people from all over the world wondering why all the wrangling to break free?

Has this exercise in futility been engineered by the EU to warn off other nations trying to loosen the ties? I know many people from various political persuasions who sympathise with May in having to deal with what became an enormous, complicated and prolonged negotiation. Could Corbyn have done any better?

Remainers go unchallenged when they say the UK is a laughing stock. Really? Those with no axe to grind are questioning the role of the EU negotiators and the whole EU set up given there is patent dissatisfaction and unrest within many other member states.

lemongrove Sun 09-Dec-18 23:31:30

I think you are right Day6 and of course we are not a laughing stock as some like to think on here, in fact the world is really not that interested in us being in or out of the EU. Those countries who are interested in the outcome, will be watching closely though, and one or two may well be having ideas about leaving as well.
The EU were always going to make things as difficult as possible for that very reason.

crystaltipps Mon 10-Dec-18 06:18:47

I don’t think many outside the U.K. are gazing in envy at our current political meltdown. The reason we want a negotiated settlement with the EU is that we rely on them for essential goods and services and wish to maintain those channels. Plus they are our closest neighbours. Anyone with half a brain would realise that the sensible thing to do is to disrupt as little as possible. May’s WA is the best fudge we can hope for other than remaining. We can’t always have what we wish for. I’d like a mansion with an ocean view but I have settled for a terraced house in the suburbs. We may wish Brittania ruled the waves and we could have complete sovereignty but that isn’t possible as we rely on others in today’s world. Even when Brittainia did rule the waves we did that by exploiting other countries.