"There will be NO renegotiation!" says Juncker for EU. Let us get out NOW!

What on earth do you mean Nice nanny.....anybody who doesn't agree with you is deemed to have a sad little life?

You being an experienced diplomat, of course, Petra with an intimate knowledge of how the EU works?

MaizieD
I have, and as with most things in life it's his opinion as to how he views the situation. I view it differently.

GG13 Probably if someone met the people who march or gather beneath the EDL flag they would assume the British are racist, however most of us aren't. In the same way some of the people you have met might not regard the British as partners but many do. They are as upset about us leaving as many remainers are, however they are beginning to think that we will get. what we deserve given the hopeless mess our politicians are making of the whole thing.

Its the Uk courtesy of the Tory party over the years which has always been eurosceptic and never considered itself an equal partner, rather considered itself somewhat superior and isolationist.

So no-one's bothered to read Ivan Roger's speech?

Sorry to disagree but they certainly haven’t bent over backwards to accommodate TM.

It is because I have family from 4 EU countries, an AC who has lived in continental Europe 15 out of the last 20 years, and having lived in a mainland EU country myself that I voted leave. We have never been considered partners by the rest of the EU.

Until “Brexit” actually happens none of us know whether alleged “project fear” or alleged “leavers lies” are the reality of the situation.

The 27 other EU countries are certainly not children. They have been hugely inconvenienced by this brexit nonsense which has already cost them colossal amounts of time and money yet they have bent over backwards to try to help TM.

This situation was caused by the troublemakers in the Tory Party, by David Cameron who foolishly called the referendum, and by the voters who believed the leavers lies, not by our partners in the EU.

Belgium has announced that Uk leaving under a “no deal” would cost them 42,000 jobs. It cannot be the only EU country beginning to count the cost of “no deal”.

If these were my children I would sit them down and make them play nicely.

I voted leave, but even I can see this situation is lunging from one ridiculous crisis to the inevitable next.

Especially if you have a sad little life

what sad little lives some must have

Not very helpful.

I've been in business for half a century and the first thing you learn is you play by the rules, you cultivate your friends because you trust them. Those you don't trust, it's simple dont do business with them, there are a few that I simply will not trade with Id rather sleep well at night.

Often business partners leave a firm, because they disagree with the company policy and set up on their own, sometimes they prosper, maybe not. What they will not normally do is trade with the old company they will often compete using the contacts they have.

This is what the Brexiteers want to do compete with the EU for better trade deals AND trade on favorable terms with them. The EU are saying OK you can do that, but you obey our rules, as they do with EFTA members. The present quarrel is about the NI backstop and UK wanting a unilateral end point, EU are never going to agree to that, it would mean that UK could end trade negotiations whenever it wished.

The trade negotiations due to begin in April will set tariffs and quotas across all sectors including financial services, good will is essential because compromise is needed and "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" for example financial services against fisheries, or food products against cars, that is going to take many years WETHER OR NOT TMs deal is agreed.

I mentioned fisheries, yes, we may get "control" but to win concessions in other areas, quotas will be traded with Spain, France and others. Anyone who does not accept that is living in La La land.

One particularly brainless politician said yesterday that we would not be paying the £39bn leaving cost, oh yes we would, it would simply be added to the tariffs imposed. Total pratts, the public actually believe such rubbish.

For the record, TMs deal is awfull, I would much prefer to Remain but if it is No Deal I will live with it but the poorest in the UK will suffer most.

Here's a nice explainer of what solely trading under WTO terms actually means.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1073221524545363973.html

Even those that run the WTO ( shock horror they’re not British) say it would be not be smooth sailing for the Brits in the no deal scenario, we pay money to the WTO, we’d have to abide by their rules and did you know they support poorer member countries with their members’ money - yet we criticise the EU for that. Perhaps we’d be in line for a few handouts. It also misleading that the EU is the only member that’s part of a bloc- it’s the only bloc that is a member , all other members bar one are part of a trading bloc. Meanwhile, the EU has just finalised it’s free trade treaty with Japan, one of the worlds leading economies. I’m not sure what will happen to those Japanese firms in the U.K. which want to trade with the EU from here. Not hopeful.

You didn't read Ivan Roger's speech, then, Day6?

leaving the EU for WTO is in footballing terms, like leaving the first division for the fourth

Premiership and League Two actually - but never mind.

The EU is part of the WTO - the only member which is part of a bloc. The member states abide by those rules when they trade with non EU nations.

So...I think the UK just might be OK outside the EU.

It's not like it's a whole new ball game, to continue the analogy.

We will have to look at "quotas" and new and fair (world wide ) tariffs for imports and exports, but given we are a member already, for the people who know about these things, the economic factors etc, it shouldn't be too onerous a task.

Let's not forget, EU member states will want to continue to do business with us. They are conversant with WTO rules and regs.

Sir Ivan Rogers, our former representative at the EU, has made a very recent speech. I would recommend that anyone who prides themselves on their intellectual ability, Leaver or Remainer, reads it:

news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

And no foolish bleating about him being a 'Remainer', please. He's a highly experienced civil servant whose entire civil service ethos is based on the ability to look on a situation objectively from all angles and to assess all those angles before acting or giving advice. His knowledge of the EU is based on years of dealing with it.

petra I didn't vote for this Conservative government but I have to pay tax, please can I have my money back. I don't like the way they are spending it!

Davidhs
Would you explain what 'both' these ponds are.
If I understand your analogy, do you mean that we want to play in Europe and the rest of the world.

JC winning a second referendum vote?

You can't get the message across to those who don't want to listen.
In any negotiation you talk, you bargain, but at the end of the day either you accept the deal or you walk away. The U.K. is free to walk away and play in a different pond but we want to play in both ponds.
It doesn't work like that you can't have both.

Absolutely, php but the problem is that many folk would never take the trouble to try to learn what a no-deal brexit actually means. They seem to think it means we are out of the EU but nothing changes. How do we get the message across?

Staunch Remainer here. To those saying that trading on WTO rules is no problem, might I politely suggest that you visit YouTube, search for 3 blokes in a pub and watch the one filmed in Geneva. It spells out in full the horrors that will ensue. After all, if you’re going to advocate such a step, it’s wise to know what is involved. Pascal Lammy, who knows about international trade, said that leaving the EU for WTO is in footballing terms, like leaving the first division for the fourth. That doesn’t sound so great to me.

Then anaology, petra was about money we have paid over which we have no control.

As we chose to become a member of the EEC and, subsequently, the EU, the analogy holds.

MaizieD
We have a choice whether or not to buy a lottery ticket.
We do not have a choice whether or not to send money to the eu.