Trump's wall

Explain how the world works without borders then oldbatty?

I'd be interested in your theory.

How can you believe in border control?,
It's not a religion.

Well said BuffyBee. I believe in border control, as do most people. It's something we must accept in the world in which we live.

However, Trump is a complete pillock. He is a deranged, self-absorbed narcissist in my opinion. Humane traits have never been given room in his pea sized brain. He could have his border controls without the nastiness and cruelty. I don't imagine that thought has ever entered his limited brain. That's an organ he never exercises.

Not at all Iam. It's a very sensitive subject, but in my position as a convert I can be more detached.
As far as I can see pre-war anti semitism in Poland was between Catholics and Jews. Pre war Poland had the biggest Jewish community in Europe, and they were the poorest. Their loss was the greatest. Many of the concentration camps were in Poland.
Post war is something different. I think it was because of the takeover of communism in Poland.

Fennel, I didn't set out to be snipey towards you and hope you don't read this comment in that way.

Fennel - thanks I know about Project Witness and agree, it's the individual risks, sacrifices and commitment that make life so good.
I've close friends who came to the UK at the turn of the 19th century, escaping pogroms on Eastern Europe. The rest of their family remained in Krakow and were slaughtered in Auschwitz. Jewish people who survived the camps were sometimes killed by their neighbours when they returned to the Jewish area in Krakow after liberation. That's the thing isn't it, about baseless prejudice.

It seems that some Gransnetters, as well as Donald Trump, do not understand or, maybe, refuse to recognise the difference between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. As many Central Americans are fleeing to the United States to escape dangerous conditions in their own countries, conditions at least partially created by United States' foreign policy and interference, it seems especially cruel to close the portals for applying for asylum.

The wall is simply a vanity project, like the aborted military parade in Washington, will cost billions and serve no purpose whatsoever.

Both are equally terrifying.

As my mother always told me two wrongs don''t make a right.
At least America has a system of controls which has thrown a spanner in the works. Altough I am sorry for those government workers who will be without pay this Christmas

But is he as nasty a piece of work as Trump? Or worse? And are his border defences any more acceptable than Trumps Mexican wall? If not, why not? Trump has drafted in thousands of borded guards to stop Central Americans entering America. Orban has asked for volunteers to become vigilantes to patrol the 300+ miles of fencing and has been inundated with citizens applying to do it. Who is worse? Surely this is the point that Buffybee was trying to make?

Victor Orban is a nasty piece of work.

Discuss

To be absolutely fair Anja, Buffybee's posts have been informative, clear and concise; but absolutely not "rude and personal". Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them rude and personal you know! And before you leap on me, I absolutely detest Trump, and all that he stands for, but I can acknowledge that Buffybee is simply trying to illustrate that there are several countries within the EU who are increasingly guarding their borders, and it's not just the USA. Hungary's Victor Orban is almost neck and neck with Trump for stirring racial hostility.

Brits going to USA are minted. Mexicans going to USA are dirt poor.

Discuss.

Lemon I’d call that a continental drift!

In truth I find that Buffy’s rude and personal comments make it impossible to take her seriously.

We British and the rest of the World are not allowed to fly to America and stay indefinitely.
We are among the countries whose citizens have to complete a E.S.T.A. application and if approved can only stay 90 days.
Why should it be any different for people from Mexico?
Just because there is a land border, it doesn't give Mexicans special privileges.
And if they are trying to get into America illegally and breaking the law, why should America not be allowed to stop them?

I thought it might be appropriate to share today’s Times’ cartoon.

Good post Iam.
But there were some brave people in right-leaning countries, including Poland, who sheltered Jewish children.
Research Project Witness.

I was amused to read that, to complement the Wall gofundme campaign, there's a Ladders to get over Trump's Wall gofundme which is also raising money.

I don't think the fact that other border walls of varying kinds exist elsewhere can be used as a justification for Trump's wall. Much depends on the circumstances and motives surrounding the building of the walls and I suggest that the rejoicing when the Berlin wall was torn down is truly something which speaks volumes. Deliberate acts of division can rarely be a good thing. A monitored border is something else entirely.

This is the season when we remember the significance of the story of the child born in a stable in Bethlehem. We can also remember the Kinder children who began to arrive here in November 1938. They were fortunate, many of them had parents who had the financial and practical resources to get them out of Austria and Germany before their parents were shipped off to the concentration camps to be gassed. Other European countries that are once again moving to the right (Poland for example) didn't do anything to help the Jewish community. Individual acts of kindness and bravery which is what seems to be happening now.

I agree lemongrove the man has a lot of support in America. Maybe he could be bricked up in the wall for posterity.

I think that it is becoming a 21st century trait that a lot of countries are beginning to think of protecting their borders.
I believe this has been brought about by the actions of a minority of refugees, there have been rapes and assaults against women in several European countries.

Any government should put the electorate first, and then see what can be done to help the plight of genuine refugees.

I do worry about the children that have been separated from their parents at the Mexican/USA border, I hope they can be reunited asap. I do realise that this happened under Obamas Presidency also.

Well there is at least one.

Anja...however ghastly Trump is, he is appealing to those many US citizens who want to protect their borders in a stronger way, so it’s entirely relevant to this thread to mention as Buffy has done that various European countries do much the same.
They don’t get castigated, so why not?
Oldbatty I have seen no Trump fans as yet on this thread.

Buffybee it's because Europe and the EU are utopia to some and above reproach why I do not know. Donald Trump has carried out most if not all of his election promises, credit where credit due.