Trump's wall

Trump voters are like leave voters in that they were deceived into believing the impossible.

The key promise Trump made in his election campaign was that the Mexicans would pay for the wall. What's the problem? maybe the Mexicans don't want to pay?

President Trump is intent on completing a border wall with Mexico, even if it means instigating a trade war with the U.S.'s second-biggest export market. His spokesman said Wednesday that the U.S. might levy a blanket 20 percent tax on Mexican imports as one way of fulfilling Trump's campaign promise that Mexico would pay for the wall.

Trump promotes the notion that migrants have been flooding across an insecure border, and taking jobs that would otherwise go to Americans. To be sure, there are indeed millions of unauthorized immigrants working in the U.S., though economists are divided on whether the contributions to the economy they make ultimately create more job opportunities for U.S. citizens. The Pew Research Center estimates that “the U.S. civilian workforce included 8 million unauthorized immigrants in 2014, accounting for 5% of those who were working or were unemployed and looking for work.”

And the largest chunk of those unauthorized immigrants are indeed from Mexico, which is the clear target of the wall, along with other Central American countries.

But since a tipping point in 2012, the net flow of migration from Mexico, both legal and not, has actually decreased. From 2009 to 2014, Pew estimates that 1 million Mexicans and their families (including U.S.-born children) left the U.S., while 870,000 Mexicans arrived.

The numbers are estimates, of course, because the flow of unauthorized migration across the U.S.-Mexico border is, by its nature, surreptitious. Pew uses a modeling tool that draws from various sources, including Mexico’s national household survey, to make its best estimate.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/27/even-before-trump-more-mexicans-were-leaving-the-us-than-arriving/?utm_term=.b87230b5794b

Tartlet please do memtion the issue of blackmail. It’s so Trump. Can’t get his way, throws a tantrum. That’s why he’s often depicted in a nappy and with a dummy.

Helpful advice has been issued for those federal workers currently on "furlough" aka involuntary leave of absence and, therefore, not receiving any pay includes the suggestion that if they cannot pay their rent, they should offer to do chores, such as painting or carpentry, for their landlords in lieu. Donald Trump says that most of these people have already contacted him to say how much they want the border wall and that he should maintain the government shutdown until the money for the wall is forthcoming. That's a lot of painting and sawing!

We’ll have to agree to differ. I think you are oversimplifying the border control issue to imply that the existence of a wall is either always good or always bad. Nor do I think it’s necesarily a moral issue but more one of values and beliefs coupled with circumstances.

I’d probably better not mention the ethical issue of a president attempting to use blackmail to get his own way and putting government employees in financial harm’s way in the process.

Jane10, Tartlet, in my opinion if the moral issue is the same, then there is no difference to the question if our values are universal and applied fairly accross the board rather than selectively.
Essentially, this is the same question and totally irrelevant whether all members in the Israeli government agree or not. Universal agreement in the Israeli government can't bestow morality to a bad situation - Palestinian or Mexican.

Odious is a polite way of referring to that man!!

Pedalpower, one very significant difference between the Israeli/Egypt wall and Trump’s wall is that the Israeli government supported their wall but the necessary majority of the US government doesn’t support Trump’s.

It goes against the US history and tradition of being a melting pot and its pride in the sentiments displayed on the Staue of Liberty.

“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

I’ve just read that Trump is threatening to close the border with Mexico entirely if he doesn’t get his way. Odious man.

Or are they fed a diet of American TV leading them to believe its a land of milk and honey? I suspect that the fear is of so called 'economic migrants' rather than genuine asylum seekers.

Which I think should give food for thought about the conditions they are trying to escape from.

It's a different issue but what do the asylum seekers/migrants think is going to happen if they do make it to the USA? As a country it seems to have harsh medical and benefit systems. They're not going to qualify for housing or education. The poor areas I've seen are pretty much no go areas with drug abuse, dealing and lots of guns. America is a bad place if you don't have money.

So, why do we worry about Trump's wall? When the Israelis built their wall, totally isolating the Palestinians, nobody raised their voice protesting at this injustice. What is the difference?

He can't get anyone to pay!!

Because he can't get the Mexicans to pay.

Sorry if I missed someone saying this already, but didn't President Trump say during his campaign that ' The Mexicans would pay for the wall, not the American taxpayers'? So why is he demanding it now?

Yes of course Eloethan, you're right to stress their parents weren't allowed in and perished in the camps. We should remember though, our governments promises to take in Syrian children, a promise that hasn't been kept. I wish we'd take in families but there are many orphaned children who could be helped.

Sadly, although the children were allowed in their parents were not and many of them perished. That "barricade" mentality leads to such tragedies.

JenniferEccles, can you think again, reflect on what would have happened to the Kinder children if Britain and other countries had 'defended its borders'. News paper reports at the time indicate that many people didn't want to offer sanctuary, life in fact, to those Jewish children. The good old Daily Mail had many leaders saying exactly that.

It's a random act of fate where we are born. I feel blessed to have been born in England, to parents who loved me and provided me with a safe, secure childhood to the best of their abilities. The asylum seeking families I met through my work, like my parents, like myself, my family and friends, all wanted to provide a safe, secure childhood for their children. That's why they risked life and limb to get here.

hundreds of thousands at the Mexican border

Not so. 4000. Not hundreds of thousands.

I am not a fan of Donald Trump (is anyone?) yet despite that I can understand his desire to attempt to prevent his country being flooded with illegal immigration.

If as has been claimed, some of those from central America are genuine asylum seekers, then the US in common with other countries already has the correct procedure to follow.

Turning up in their hundreds of thousands at the Mexican border is not of course the way to go about it.

The fact that such a large sum of money has been raised by crowdfunding proves that a lot of Americans are behind what he is doing.

And before anyone shouts, they are not all raving ignorant racists. As has already been said, shouldn't EVERY country have the right to defend its borders?

Of course they should.

One of my most favourite songs ever.

Living in Cloud Cuckoo land....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww

absent I absolutely agree with your point re people escaping conditions that have been principally or partially created by US foreign policy and interference.

Trump is really a very ignorant and unpleasant man and it is horrifying that some people continue to support someone so dangerous. Ramping up tensions between various countries and groups of people and being so confrontational in almost everything he says and does is just what we don't need in this very volatile world.