So no hope from Jeremy either?

trisher. As you're keeping this going.

" Because posts abut DA can be construed as racist when they are inaccurate POGS."
--

Absolute tosh!

If something is said by a GN poster let's say about Sajid David which is factually incorrect is that poster then defined as a ' RACIST '? That is what you are saying . The colour of the skin is the defining factor!

What is ' RACIST ' is those who dislike him because of his politics calling him a ' Cocanut'. I use that as an example but I think most adults can differentiate between what is a 'Racist ' comment and speaking of a person in general.

Are the likes of Dianne Abbott and Sajid David only to be spoken of with care, reverence because they are politicians of colour? That is a ridiculous thought.

-----

" But anybody who posts anything about DA should first ensure that they are posting accurate and fully comprehensive information. "

Anybody posting should ensure accurate posting about ANYBODY and the colour of his/her skin is irrelevant. Just because the person in question is ethnic does not infer the poster is ' A RACIST ' as you assume .
---

The poster called ' A R** ' was pounced on by another poster who thought she would turn a fairly innocuous comment about Dianne Abbott into something utmost certainly was not intended to be.

Grandad

A while ago you said this:-

" POGS, As has been stated on this forum any number of times, Corbyn's position is still in line with the party conference policy. That policy states that priority for the parliamentary party is in the first place to take every opportunity presented to bring forward a general election. Should the preceding not prove to be possible, to only then attempt to seek a second referendum."

Has Corbyn fulfilled the policy?

How long can Corbyn hold out for General Election?

How long before he goes to ' Seek a second Referendum '?

Irrespective of a General Election being called does the ' Grass roots ' Labour / Momentum Party want a 2nd Referendum anyway?

So no critcism of

Luciana Berger

Margaret Hodge

Ruth Smeeth

Ed Milliband

David Milliband

Grant Shapps

John Bercow

POGS, regarding your post @ 13:42 today (02/02/19), then Jeremy Corbyn is still obviously remaining with the Brexit policy as set out by the Labour party conference. In that the policy is, as first priority to seek a General Election, and if that proves not possible to only then consider pressing for a second referendum.

My feelings are (and I would emphasise they are just my thoughts) that the "crunch time" will come for Theresa May on Tuesday the 12th of February. That is the date when the Prime Minister has to inform Parliment of the changes she has obtained from the EU on the agreement backstop.

If parliament then finds no changes have been agreed, then the Conservative party in the House of Commons may well "totally fall apart" and collapse TMs government in any new no-confidence vote.

Then a general election would have to come about, whatever the state of Brexit or the country, and Corbyn would have been proved correct in remaining with the conference policy.

As stated, just my thoughts, for what it is worth.

OK, let's take this at face value.

What happens after the election, and he wins? What next?

He is still talking about re-negotiating a deal that the EU just cannot give. Single market, customs union - and a seat at the top table. That can't happen - whether Mrs May is negotiating, or if he is. Just can't- as it would destroy the special agreements with Norway and Switzerland, and just self destrof the EU.

So please- can you tell us what Corbyn would do post winning an election (and to be clear, I do not believe he would win- not even with the total shambles of this most disastrous of government).

The reason our country is in such a hopeless mess is that Jeremy Corbyn is so similar to Theresa May.

Both were ostensibly Remainers but did damn all in the campaign, then as soon as Leave scraped through by a tiny margin, they both went overboard on this "will of the people - we must deliver brexit" nonsense.

Neither of them have ever paid any attention to the 48% Remain supporters, who have in fact been in the majority for the last two years (latest average of six polls shows Remain at 54%).

It is time they woke up to the fact that the will of the people has changed and most of us want to remain in the EU.

We can unilaterally revoke Article 50, avoid inflicting any more harm on our country, and that is what we should do.

I do hope Grandad will come back with a reply- I am seriously interested.

Does anyone here genuinely believe that

a) JC would win the election

and

b) that he could re-negotiate a deal with the EU, that would include all the good bits and none of the responsibilities. Unicorn, cake and eat it and all?

Well, let's face it Jura2, should this shambles of government collapse and a general election have to be called, then the 29th of March leaving date would have to be put back by way of suspending article fifty. Although the EU would have to sanction such a move, I have no doubt under such a circumstance that would come about. The forgoing I believe is now the only way to stop the March leaving date without risking public disorder.

Should the Labour party win that general election (bearing in mind they began the last election campaign twenty points behind in the opinion polls) then at least the EU commission would have fresh faces to deal with following the shambles the Tory party have made of the negotiations with them over the last two years.

There would also have to be a recall Labour Party Conference before the election with regard to the Brexit policy. That conference I believe would place as first priority that a customs union fully acceptable to the EU must accompany any leave agreement. That would enable Britain to still leave the European Union on a date to be set when other accompanying issues are resolved. The foregoing would resolve the Irish border issue which I feel is the greatest threat to the stability of the UK into the future.

As we have all witnessed this week, frictionless border trade has to be also top of any new agenda with large manufacturers announcing their plans to leave Britain on an almost daily basis.

Today we have reports that Nissan will now not build its new model in the UK despite the announcement to do so in 2016. Forward investment by other vehicle manufacturers is also down nearly 80% with regard to their British plants.

The finance industry is also now relocating into Europe with Barclays moving many billions of clients investments to Dublin this week with much more to follow they state

Of coarse, many will argue that such a comprehensive customs agreement would mean that the UK would have to accept the free movement of labour. However, we have all learned I believe that much of that labour is required for many industries and public services in the UK.

However, a full customs agreement with the EU would mean that Britain would be free to sign trade agreements with other nations and "take back control", which is what the leave voters wished for.

I would emphasise that the above are only my thoughts on the situation, as requested by jura2. Other as we know on this forum have far different views.

Thanks for coming back Grandad- there was no 'request' btw, just a polite ask.

You ahve anot answered the question though - do you really think that JC (if he was elected) - would be able to negotiate the kind of deal you are describing. Which I have been calling 'unicorns + cake and eat it'? I truly do not think he could- as it would be so detrimental to the 27 and EEA members.

So, we get an election - massive delays, massive uncertainty- and if the Cons win again? What then??????
In the meantime the country will have gone down even further down the pan... more industries and businesses lost, financial services, banks - more borrowing, more austerity, more trouble all round.

jura2, there is much in your above post I would thoroughly agree with regarding the chaos that could ensue should there be a general election and the ERG/Tory party win following a suspension of article fifty. However, I feel that the whole Brexit situation has been so badly handled that there are no easy options remaining open to the United Kindom.

I feel that a number on this forum believe I am a strong supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, but I am not. I am a firm supporter of the policies brought in by the Labour party under Corbyns leadership. I am also a supporter of the way he has engaged with the grassroots in the broader Labour movement while those polices were brought into being. However, I believe a far more charismatic leader is required to put forward those policies to the British electorate, and i think also that is now recognised widely in the movement.

However, I do not feel that any leadership challenge is likely in the near future, and even if that should come about it would not be accepted by the wider Labour movement in the country.

Therefore, Corbyn will be the Labour leader should an election be called in the next few weeks and as stated he did very well in the last general election overturning a twenty point lead by the Tory party in the opinion polls prior to the election

However as you asked jura2, should Labour win could he negotiate a better deal for Britain on leaving the EU. I believe if that is to come about then Britain has to find a new position on a Customs agreement that does not involve the European Union having to transgress the treaties which bind its members in union. In that, I feel Britain will have to accept the free movement of labour which is now in all probability acceptable to the grassroots Labour movement on the country. However, that situation will never be acceptable to the Tory party either to the rank and file or the parliamentary party.

Indeed, the above could well be a key issue in any general election that may be called in the near future. In that, Both parties would campaign that Britain should still withdraw from the EU following the referendum, but the labour policy would entail a soft exit in full alliance with our largest trading partner.

Thank you for clarifying Grandad.

Jenny Formby has said it’s impossible to wipe out anti semetism !

Annie of course it is impossible to wipe out anti-semitism just as it is impossible to stop some people joining the far right organisations which exist and always have done. Racism, anti-semitism, homophobia, Islamaphobia and other right wing ideas persist and are flourishing in some places. In many cities people are organising against them and standing together.-Newcastle Unites!

If anti semetism is a right wing idea how come the Labour Party has anti semetic members

And Jenny Formby was speaking of anti semetism in the Labour Party

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/exclusive-jennie-formby-told-mps-twice-that-it-would-be-impossible-to-eradicate-antisemitism-1.479565

Anniebach, the Labour party is an organisation of over a half million members, with the broader Labour movement in the country being an organisation of over six million members. As Jenney Formby states in your link, any one of those six and a half million members could make an anti-semitic statement at any time, and that is impossible to police or stop. Therefore Formby was stating what all should realise is true fact, and is one of the disadvantages of being the largest political organisation in Europe.

However, the Tory party with around one hundred thousand members (possibly less) should be able to stop the Islamophobia that seems to be rife among that small membership. However, it still continues but strangely not picked up by Britains right-wing press.

With you there Grandad.

Exactly- Islamophobia is rife in the Tory Party, and in some sections of the Labour Party too - but it is never talked about.

I have never come across any form of anti-semetism in the UK, ever. Many people I know are appalled by what is happening in Gazza - but this has nothing to do with anti-semetism.

But I've come across blatant and virulent Islamophobia from people in all walks of life, mainly from both extremes.

Grandad

You posted to jura-

" However as you asked jura2, should Labour win could he negotiate a better deal for Britain on leaving the EU. I believe if that is to come about then Britain has to find a new position on a Customs agreement that does not involve the European Union having to transgress the treaties which bind its members in union. In that, I feel Britain will have to accept the free movement of labour which is now in all probability acceptable to the grassroots Labour movement on the country. However, that situation will never be acceptable to the Tory party either to the rank and file or the parliamentary party."

A). You believe Labour could negotiate a Customs Union and Single Market arrangement without having to abide by the 4 pillars/freedoms which ist the political dogma in treaty form that the EU states ' No Cherry Picking '. If we abide by the 4 pillars/freedoms we have not left the EU .

B). Why do you believe the Free Movement of People will not be agreeable to the Tory Party and not Labour voters?

Both Parties will have broken their Manifesto pledges and flip flopping on the Free Movement of People is most certainly not a one party problem.

In fact the MP's who stood on their Party Manifestos and are now showing they had no intention of following the Party Line are sending out a message MP's speak from two sides of their mouth, some are pure hypocrites.

Jura

" Exactly- Islamophobia is rife in the Tory Party, and in some sections of the Labour Party too - but it is never talked about."

Can you put forward factual evidence of your statement .

Jura

" I have never come across any form of anti-semetism in the UK, ever. "
--

Are you denying there are anti-semetic issues in the Labour Party ?

What does that mean anyway? Just because you have not ' 'come across it ' are you saying those who have openly spoken of it are lying?

Unless you are Jewish jura why should you have come across any?

Agreed, I am not Jewish, and I am not Muslim either. I've across a lot of Islamophobia, but no anti-semetism.

You are not Muslim lemongrove, are you? Have you witnesses Islamophobia or not?

POGS, no I am not denying it exists in the LP- I am saying that many I know in LP are anti zionism- and that that is very different.

I have posted many times about the difficulties of supporting Palestinians without slipping into anti-semitism and that is why it is impossible to eradicate anti-semitism completely. It's a very fine line and some will cross it unknowingly. I would have thought Jenny Formby would have been lauded for being so honest.
As far as Islamaphobia goes this is a real example
www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-bahr-academy-byker-grove-15732931

Jura

" POGS, no I am not denying it exists in the LP- I am saying that many I know in LP are anti zionism- and that that is very different."
---

Pleased to hear it but just because you haven't seen something does not mean it does not exist .

I also asked you another question.:-

Exactly- Islamophobia is rife in the Tory Party, and in some sections of the Labour Party too - but it is never talked about."

Can you put forward factual evidence of your statement .