So-called ‘migrant crisis’

If Anne Frank's family hadn't been denied refugee status in the USA, she would probably still be alive – nine years older than I am.

What annoys me about this whole discussion is the lack of criticism of our own dear government(s) who successively have done little, or nothing, to stem the tide of illegal migrants. This is nothing new, ask people who live in Kent near any channel port.

I will not be responding again other than to say Ellan, I have no problem with opposition. I have had some interesting and thought provoking discussions on GN.

Your assertion that the entire populations of Iraq and Iran hate the UK, are utter nonsense.

Immigration is a complex area and it has been handled in a very poor way by those who should know better.

Good post Day6

Very interesting thread this. Reveals the worst side of human nature and the best.

Unfair, people have different opinions, doesn’t mean either side is the worse side of human nature .

Well said Anniebach !

Sorry Annie but it’s more than that. At its most basic it brings to mind the parable of the Good Samaritan. Isn’t this exactly what Jesus was talking about over 2000 years ago? It’s not a new problem.

Excellent point, Absent. I am also reminded the UK took in the ships carrying Jewish children fleeing from the Nazi regime. I feel proud that we did.

On the other hand, as we see, those coming across now tend to be young males, not children at all. I think that could be part of the concern felt by some.

If countries like ours didn't sell arms to other countries there would not be refugees, would there?

Anja, my belief is that charity begins at home. We have thousands of our own who are homeless/ living on the streets, young, old and ailing, most through no fault of their own and we shouldn't judge how they ended up there either.

When these people are or have been interviewed, have you ever come across any of these hundreds of refugees in the same position ? Where are they being kept/housed ? I'd like you to find out. Are they receiving welfare payments ? If my " worst " is because I'm concerned for our own fellow human beings, some of who fought in wars ( ex-servicemen ) then I wouldn't like to hear of your " worst ".

This is all damage limitation. If men didn't always seem to have the urge to fight then the people of these different countries could get on with growing crops and developing their economies.
Nothing changes. Swords aren't turned into ploughshares.

The constant argument put forward is ‘ we need immigrants for the NHS etc. Not all work in hospitals and care homes, I think it wrong to use this and dismiss the larger number who do not work in health care.

Yes an open door to all is compassionate. But is it wise?

It is my understanding that the UK takes a lower proportion of asylum seekers per head of population than most other EU countries but it feels like people don't take that into account.

The UK sends huge amounts to help refugees living just outside Syria so that they will be able to return to their country one day. Unfortunately it appears that it is the middle classes with the money to pay traffickers who are able to leave and start new lives in Europe. I doubt they will want to go back to help restore their country after all the trouble ends.

If we had a system which noted when people came into the country and when they left it might help a bit. At the moment we rely on employers and landlords to check that people have the right paperwork to stay and I suspect that can be forged. I have been told it is very easy to get a NI number too.

Of course we should help those who are desperate to flee dangerous countries but maybe we should find a way of checking they are genuine as there seems to be a feeling that some are economic migrants rather than asylum seekers.

Does anyone think it was wrong to bring Malala here?

If I was fleeing with my family I would like to think that I would stay in the first place I felt safe.

If these people do not feel “safe” in mainland Europe why is this do you think?

My thoughts are that the population as a whole gets confused between a destitute refugee family and young men who whilst some have fled from a war zone, some are undoubtedly illegal economic migrants.

The UK has historically always helped those in need, our overseas aid budget is vast. Admittedly it is not always allocated to the most needy, India has its own space program but we send aid. I guess that is a throwback from the days of our Empire.

I would not be happy to see our borders closed to immigration from the rest of the world. On the other hand I am not comfortable with the UK being seen as a “soft touch” for illegals.

I agree GrannyGravy

With regard to 'safe' countries I thought this was an interesting piece by an immigration lawyer:

www.freemovement.org.uk/refugees-claim-asylum-upon-arrival-first-safe-country/

He paints this scenario

Imagine that revolution once more washed against our strong and stable shores, and the government has been overthrown by a man, let’s call him Figel Narage, intent on persecuting anyone who did not enjoy drinking bitter or who would not swear allegiance to the Queen.

People were being rounded up and forced to sink pints of London Pride while saluting a portrait of Elizabeth II in town squares up and down the country. Those who refused to do so were having their heads shaved and their foreheads branded with the € sign.

You’ve been tee-total ever since that embarrassing episode at Uncle Kevin’s wedding, and you once retweeted a cartoon of the Queen doing something unmentionable to a corgie. It is no longer safe for you in the country.

You also have a fairly strong refugee claim as a person with a well-founded fear of persecution for a Convention reason (particular social group – tee-totallers, and/or anti-monarchists), unable to avail yourself of the protection of the state (which is the persecutor) and with no internal flight alternative within the UK (as the state controls all areas of the country).
So, one day you don’t turn up at work, dodge the road blocks on the M3, and pay a smuggler at Southampton docks to row you and your young family to Normandy.

However, you know that the French authorities are fed up of asylum applications from émigré tee-totallers, and have heard stories of applications being delayed for months, even years, particularly in the regions of Bordeaux, Champagne and Cotes Du Rhone.

You don’t speak a word of French. Having secured your immediate safety, your priority is to find accommodation, provide for your family, and get the kids back to school. You have concerns as to whether the French can provide this

On the other hand, there’s a sizeable tee-totaller community in Spain who have also moved from England following Narage’s ‘Purple Revolution’, and your wife’s cousin has got a spare room where you and your family will be able to stay until you get yourselves sorted.

You studied Spanish at A-level so you can get by in the language, and there is the possibility of work through an old friend based at the University of Salamanca.

Do you claim in Paris, or continue to Madrid?

(But do read the whole article)

GrannyGravy I think the aid to India has either stopped or is about to stop. I heard this a year or two ago when I felt the same about it.

I think India is doing very well without our help. When we were there we saw just how important education is and how much they help people to improve their lives. Yes, they still have a long way to go but I don't think it will be long before they have a huge and successful economy.

Anja, my belief is that charity begins at home ....now why doesn’t that surprise me! Missed the point if the parable somewhat which says exactly the opposite.

That to me is the battle cry of the xenophob.

Excellent post maizie but as long as we see posters such as we see on this thread it will be ignored. As long as this them and us mentality exists, those posters will never sympathise, far less identify with, those that need help.

Re sending aid.

Ask yourself why the sub-Saharan farmer would choose to leave his land; voyage across the Mediterranean putting his life in danger, travel hundreds or thousands of miles through hostile countries, relying on the generosity of strangers and eventually reach the U.K. so he can work for peanuts in a supermarket car park washing cars?

When perhaps with some help or aid from a rich country he can replace the cows that died in the drought and install a well, and carrying on doing what he does best....farming in his own native land.

Are there really those who cannot see that in fact aid to other countries can reduce net immigration.

I thought you were all for immigration Anja ? Sudden change of heart ?

" battle cry of the xenophobe ?" Is that all you can come up with ?
I suppose if all else fails you might as well say what the hordes say as it's their signature tune too ! To typecast !!

Anja I am in favour of aid as long as it goes where needed.

I don’t think the government (of either persuasion) should hand over money without knowing that it will be used wisely.

Education, providing clean water, emergency food, shelters, buying livestock, farm machinery and health care.

I don't think the answer is as simple as providing aid to sub-Saharan Africa, though, Anja. There is terrible drought and we have to remember that at one time the Sahara was green and is now desert where people would not survive.

There is also civil war and people are starving because any aid that is sent does not get through.

Until these huge problems are solved, people will try to escape to a better life. 20 million people are in danger of starvation - so what is the answer?

The problem is enormous and the answers not easy.