So-called ‘migrant crisis’

Does it not make you angry, MaizieD, to see the plight of many Africans in various countries on that continent, when they have the resources to end their misery?

I think you're playing Devil's Advocate.

Here here Jalima.
Not much point in pointing out the horrors of the poly tunnel workers. Out of sight, out of mind
These pics don't show the worst, which I've witnessed many many timeshttps://www.huckmag.com/art-and-culture/travel-diary-almeria/

Another link that didn't work

timeshttps://www.huckmag.com/art-and-culture/travel-diary-almeria/

Thank you, Jalima

I’m saddened to read this thread. If Gransnetters can’t discuss without insults, I’m not sure how the wider situation of migrants re European populations can get along. Some of the comments on this thread have made me ashamed of my age group. And no, don’t ask me to repeat them because I won’t. And I might add, the comments came from supporters of both sides of the argument.

And I will also add, thank goodness, the majority of posters did not hurl insults, for that I’m relieved.

I want to make people understand that boxing ourselves into tiny cubbies based on class, race, ethnicity, religion—anything, really—comes from a poverty of mind, a poverty of imagination. The world is dull and cruel when we isolate ourselves.

It's a very noble theory but that is all it is.

Look at every big city in the UK. There are Asian enclaves in all of them, where people who share culture, religion, traditions, history, ethnicity, etc, congregate and live. In every single city, minorities find each other - and that is perfectly understandable.

There is integration of a sorts, at work and in day to day dealings in the workplace but when people go home they like to be surrounded by people who understand them.

Multiculturalism is a fine ideal, but social engineering is sinister. I have no worries living in a multicultural society but the barriers and boundaries exist, and liberals pretend they don't. That tends to be how people of all races and culture like it.

There is no open animosity - for most people that doesn't exist - but we all get on with our lives in ways that are traditional and familiar.

I don't think the link has worked, sorry petra

I had tried copying and pasting, then putting [[ ]] around.

I'll try another way petra:
www.huckmag.com/art-and-culture/travel-diary-almeria/

Jalima that was just an example of why giving aid actually benefits us here in the UK. I could have mentioned the women’s cooperatives in India or the midwife and local teacher training programme, etc.

As far as you are concerned EV I really CBA’d to reply to such a silly post. Sorry,

Possibly you have been treated by a medic of Iranian or Iraqi heritage
I know this wasn't a comment to me oldbatty, but it struck a chord. Yes, I have, but she did not arrive here illegally on a boat.

I have some small experience of a reluctance to integrate socially, but I make no claim that this is anything other than personal experience and is very possibly not idiomatic of a particular culture. My son and his family live on a small housing estate that has many young families; there is a small infants and juniors school nearby, which most of the children on the estate attend. One of my son's neighbours is Asian, Pakistani I think, but I'm not certain. They have a little girl who is in the same class as my GD and they're good friends at school. GD, and her class mates, have had many birthday parties between them that all the class pupils are invited to. But the neighbour's little girl has never attended a single one of them, even though invitations are given to her and her parents. DIL has personally asked the parents if S****a can attend and has promised that she will be well cared for and the parents can stay during the party if they prefer. But the answer is always no. S****a is a lovely little girl and I feel so sorry for her that she can see and hear her class mates having a party in a nearby garden; but she can't join in, not even for half an hour. After school play dates are neither accepted nor offered. School holidays, playing in the garden on the trampoline; S*****a is not allowed to join in.

Slowly, the invitations to parties, play dates, after school tea and trips to the park are beginning to dry up because its becoming accepted that all invitations will be rebuffed. My son and DIL have tried very hard to get to know the family but they feel that a barrier has been put up and there's no crossing it. It seems such a waste of an opportunity for different cultures to get to know one another; to understand each other's ways and to show children that tolerance of all cultures is to be encouraged. And if we're not doing that with children, this cultural divide and lack of tolerance and understanding of each other's ways of life will continue to grow and increase the "us and them" situation that is causing so many problems now.
There has to be some give and take on all sides and a willingness to get to know your neighbour, no matter what their skin colour, where they're from or what God they pray to. Division isn't all one sided.

petra

but we will give them a better deal than the eu one which protects Spain (mostly) which makes some produce more expensive for us.

33 African countries (out of 54) couldn't possibly get a better deal with the UK than with the EU because they are part of the EU Everything But Arms (EBA) initiative which means that they can export anything, except, arms tariff free to the EU

List can be found here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_Developed_Countries

Some detail of EBA here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_but_Arms

Of course, this applies to all the Least Developed Countries (LDCs) which trade with the EU, of which thee are more than just the African ones (see first link), 47 countries in total.

Yes the conditions of agricultural workers in any country should be scrutinised- many of them are awful. As an EU member we should certainly have been campaigning for improvements. No problem with that. But don’t expect that if we are getting cheaper food from further away the workers there will have not been exploited in some way.

I'm not a lefties or a liberal.I have made an effort to mix with people from different cultures. I should not have resorted to insulting a poster on this thread.I don't know how EV knows millions of people hate the UK or how Gabriella knows people from Sudan treat women badly and are a drain on society.

Chewbacca what a sad story. That poor little girl. Maybe there's something about that particular family. Certainly, when my children were at school we had social comings and goings with children from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds. However, typically, the parents were educated professionals. They had gone through all the legal routes into the country. Not sure what I'm saying here though!

Jane10
I think I understand what your saying. My daughter had exactly the same situation as Chewbacca's family.
This family lived next door to my daughter and it became known that they were offended by my granddaughter not wearing a top (age 6/7) in the garden.
My daughter has now moved and there are 3 families from the Indian sub continent near her (one next door) these people are all professionals. The relationships are very different to where she moved from.

I've just read through all this thread - a good discussion, I can't add any more.
Except that in the past there have been years of drought in Africa and other places, and the population just died. Then the drought ended and the countries re-populated.
We don't know yet whether this climate change is going to be temporary or not.

Always best to mix with professionals.

My next door neighbours are Pakistani. My daughter and their son are the same age, they have 2 daughters 6 & 7 years older.

Since the day they moved in and introduced themselves my D and their S have been friends (they were 9 & 10) she was always popping into their house, and he would come here. As they got older this didn't change, she would spend time with the older girls as well.

Now they have GC as do we the GSs know and play with each other.

I would be devasted if they moved. So you know the geography we are 3 detached houses on a small block of a long road.

I class them as friends first and neighbours second. I always look forward to Ramadan as we share such wonderful tasty food that they prepare for Itfar(hope I have got the spelling correct).

Integration can work, I feel that perhaps language and and ideas brought from their original countries along with a reluctance to change can cause hostility.

We can put humans on the moon, explore outer space, build pipilines to transport gas and oil across continents, so why can we not pipe water from one Afrucan country to another?
Because the will is not there.

Chewbacca your story about the little girl is quite worrying - I wonder why she is being kept isolated?
We've had neighbours who are from India, Uganda, amongst other countries and we've all integrated and the children played together. We have several friends whose children have married those from other cultural or religious backgrounds too.
It sounds quite worrying - I wonder if the school is aware?

Apologies for typos. I should have checked before posting

Perhaps it takes a few generations before people properly integrate? I worked with a French girl of Pakistani origin and she said she couldn't possibly go out with a boy who wasn't Muslim but, if she had children they could do what they liked. Of course she wasn't and asylum seeker but we have already gone off thread.

I don't know any Sudanese but, from what I've read (and we all give/have given opinions on what we've read) I'm not of the opinion that the majority landing here illegally are fully qualified doctors, engineers, professionals in any way, otherwise they could go the legal route.
Their culture is not Western culture, in the main, however, if reports in the media are anything to go by, a lot of them land in trouble when arriving illegally here or in other countries.
We have enough trouble with our own troublemakers without accepting illegal immigrants who do not go through the proper channels.
Even the Isle of Man (with the exception of certain seasonal workers) only allows you to work if positions cannot be filled from the island population and there is rigorous checking, you have to be sponsored by your future employer and both if you have to go before a board and answer questions to which the board already know the answers, so there is no fooling them.
If a small island can do that, we, compared to other countries are small and should also go that route.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand, to name three other countries, have vigorous checks in place.
What will happen to the countries they leave? Only women and children left and who will provide for them? We can't go on like this. There has to be a point where enough is enough.