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Revoke Article 50

(104 Posts)
varian Fri 04-Jan-19 12:25:40

Parliament should feel under no obligation to accept the Withdrawal Agreement. It can legitimately vote to revoke Article 50, and retain the UK’s status as an EU Member State. The result of revocation is that the UK will be able to reconsider its position on Brexit. The Court’s judgment insists that revocation is unconditional and unequivocal. The Court emphasised the ability of a Member State to change its mind.

Alima Fri 04-Jan-19 12:37:42

No, don’t! It is what we voted. For. Back off and realise your side lost!

FlexibleFriend Fri 04-Jan-19 13:05:24

No just get on with it. We voted to leave and haven't changed our minds.

Devorgilla Fri 04-Jan-19 13:09:39

varian, I wish our politicians had the guts to do it but I doubt they will. When we get the second vote there should be only 2 choices on the paper - stay with the EU or accept May's deal. 'No deal' should not even be talked about now. They are spending millions on a 'no deal' scenario which is highly unlikely to materialise. I have to wonder who has shares in these companies and which Party's donors will rake it in. One thing I am sure of is that if we are insane enough to deliver a 'no deal' it will be the ordinary person who will pick up the bill.

lemongrove Fri 04-Jan-19 13:11:28

No thanks Varian !
You certainly never give up.

Devorgilla Fri 04-Jan-19 13:18:33

Who do you think Jacob Rees Mogg meant when he said it was a 'once in a lifetime' decision? Those who were old enough to vote or is he including everyone else who didn't get that chance because they were too young or not even born at the time? Perhaps the younger voters will demand a 'once in a lifetime' chance to reverse the decision.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 04-Jan-19 13:19:26

Since when has a vote in the UK not been acted on, even if a party has only a small majority it finds a coalition so that the electorates votes are acted on.

The more the "remain" side goes on it is making them look like children in the playground who did not get the skipping rope the wanted to play with, and pushing voters over towards "leave".

MaizieD Fri 04-Jan-19 13:19:41

Oh,,nice to know that people voted for chaos and economic catastrophe and insist that we should go through with it.

It baffles me as to what the EU did to them that was so vile that they prefer poverty and hardship.

Cabbie21 Fri 04-Jan-19 13:27:14

Given the inability of this government to agree on a deal, I think revocation of Article 50 may be justified, or at the very least, an extension of time to agree a deal.
This time it should be negotiated by a cross party group, including experts in various fields, not just politicians. If they fail, then it is time for a rethink.
I can’t agree that we should stick with the result of a referendum which the government has failed to deliver.

lemongrove Fri 04-Jan-19 13:29:45

Poverty and hardship? grin
If Parliament accepts the deal that T May has got then it will go smoothly, so blame those MP’s who will block it.

mcem Fri 04-Jan-19 13:43:43

I see that the DUP have said today that they will not support May's deal in any circumstances.
Let's see what the vote brings (unless she can find a way to wriggle out of it again!)

Nonnie Fri 04-Jan-19 13:51:08

The only democratic thing to do is to ask the people what they want. Yes, I've heard and read all the shouty things from Leavers but if they believe in truth and democracy it is the only way to go. Only after a vote on FACTS can we move forward. If that doesn't happen then there will be, at the very least, discontent throughout the land. I don't know why Leavers are so against another vote, none of them has explained what they are frightened of. If they believe that the vote was right then surely they believe that, now that we know the reality of leaving the EU, even more people will vote to leave.

I think the reason TM doesn't want another vote is because MPs won't be able to choose which side to be on. They won't vote according to their conscience, they will vote according to which group puts the most pressure on them and where they think the votes at the next general election will come from.

MaizieD Fri 04-Jan-19 14:20:53

^ but if they believe in truth and democracy^

I don't think they do, Nonnie.

MaizieD Fri 04-Jan-19 14:26:44

If Parliament accepts the deal that T May has got then it will go smoothly

You don't do your Leaver credentials any good here, lemon. May's 'deal' is Brexit in name only with a big dollop of xenophobia. We get most of the cake, have to abide by EU rules and have absolutely no say over the rules. But we do get to stop those nasty EU citizens thinking they can come and go as they please and to harass the ones who think they have settled here by right of their EU citizenship.

And, of course, blue passports...

What more can anyone ask for?

MrsEggy Fri 04-Jan-19 14:31:27

This was the second "vote in a lifetime" I've had on membership of the EU!

crystaltipps Fri 04-Jan-19 14:33:02

Governments frequently drop stuff in their manifestos when they discover they aren’t actually that popular or workable.

Fennel Fri 04-Jan-19 15:11:22

Although I agree with you in principle,*Varian*, I don't think the govt. will ever swallow their pride and do it.
As Cabbie says, it would at least give everyone time to reflect, and consider alternatives etc.

winterwhite Fri 04-Jan-19 15:13:02

Revoking Article 50 and reconsidering is the only sane solution now that we know so much more than we did 18 months ago, not much of it reassuring.
TM made a major mistake in triggering article 50 too soon. Since she postponed the meaningful vote because she was unlikely to win it, her supporters would be on weak ground if they objected to her postponing Brexit altogether.

Nonnie Fri 04-Jan-19 15:55:56

Alima No, don’t! It is what we voted. For. Back off and realise your side lost!

FlexibleFriend No just get on with it. We voted to leave and haven't changed our minds.

Have you a reasoned argument or is that the best you can do to persuade us? Do you think that a vote on the facts will be different to the vote on the lies? Surely if you are so sure most people want to leave the EU you have nothing to worry about?

Framilode Fri 04-Jan-19 17:08:18

Interesting that Gransnet seems full of leavers. If you go on Mumsnet it's the opposite. Bears out what has been said about the old being leavers and the younger ones remainers.

We are totally mucking up their future.

Caledonai14 Fri 04-Jan-19 17:20:37

Everything is being done to force us into a terrible act of self harm, despite all the warnings which are batted away as Project Fear, instead of being regarded as information we now have which was lacking we took part in an "advisory" referendum.

Scotland did not vote for Brexit.

In the independence referendum 2 years previously, many people voted to stay in the UK because they wanted to stay in the EU.

I actually fear a Public Vote would reflect people's fedupness with the whole thing and the UK would yet again vote to leave, despite all the warnings.

But for some reason people in the UK as a whole want to beholden us to the likes of Donald Trump. Unbelievably sad for us all. sad

varian Fri 04-Jan-19 17:26:41

Those who insist that brexit must go ahead because "its what WE (27% of the population) voted for, seem to be ignoring some very pertinent facts -

The referendum was ill-conceived, fraudulent and won on lies.

There is no "have cake and eat it" brexit on offer and never will be.

Theresa May's "red lines" were-
(1) in order to stop freedom of movement we must leave the single market and customs union and-
(2) there must be frictionless trade and no border between Northern Ireland (part of UK so out of EU) and the Republic of Ireland (in the EU)

These "red lines" are, and have been proven to be, mutually exclusive- irreconcileable . It is impossible to square that circle.

It is time that those who voted leave and still cling to the mythical promises of the leave liars, were helped to understand this.

As for being called a loser, I must point out that if the UK should actually leave the EU, we will all be losers.

Alima Fri 04-Jan-19 17:31:27

Hey Nonnie No! Bring it on!

Nandalot Fri 04-Jan-19 17:41:09

Winterwhite, don’t you think that the timing of Triggering Article 50 and hence Brexit is very helpful for those who can save millions through tax avoidance as that would have affected the U.K. at the start of this financial year. Or am I being too cynical?

varian Fri 04-Jan-19 18:03:26

You have put your finger on it Nandalot. I understand that EU legislation is due to come into effect in April and would not suit the agenda of the tax dodging billionaires who funded the leave campaign.