What next?

If there was no intention of an eu army, why did Ireland have an opt out Claus of Not joining the army, written into the Lisbon Treaty?
That was allowed on their 2nd time of voting because the first time they got it wrong

I guess Cameron got something maybe?

Basically we are all in denial!!!!

No one is going to get what they wanted!!!!

MP’s and MEP’s lining their pockets!

Varian

"except for UKIP, BNP, DUP and some other extreme rightwing groups.

If I had been dithering about which way to vote, I think that one fact would have been enough to make me see that I certainly did not want to be in the latter camp."
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You are chiming with the remain posters comment/comments about Leavers ' being in bed with racists' are you not.

Nothing wrong with an army if you are in it.

And, if we were still in the EU I guess we could have been 'proactive' about voting against it ....

I can’t believe that some posters are still in denial about the EU being proactive about the prospect of an EU Army, backed by Germany and France.
The France/Germany led EU is quite serious about wanting it to happen soon.

Before the referendum in 2016, Remain was supported by all the UK political parties - Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, Green, SNP, Plaid Cymru and others except for UKIP, BNP, DUP and some other extreme rightwing groups.

If I had been dithering about which way to vote, I think that one fact would have been enough to make me see that I certainly did not want to be in the latter camp.

I've just seen a picture on facebook of some 'yellow jackets' with a KKK banner doing Nazi salutes. What is happening to this country terrifies me.

Junkers State of the Union Address 2017

" And I want us to dedicate further efforts to defence matters. A new European Defence Fund is in the offing. As is a Permanent Structured Cooperation in the area of defence. By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European Defence Union. We need it. And NATO wants it."
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www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-army-to-complement-nato/
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www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-army-angela-merkel-macron-germany-france-military-european-commission-juncker-a8633196.html

The European Commission has said it is “delighted” that the leaders of France and Germany have backed the creation of a “real” EU army.

A spokesperson for the commission’s president Jean-Claude Juncker said he was “pleased” that the argument for the force seemed to be “going in our direction”.

Addressing the European Parliament on Tuesday Angela Merkel said she supported a “real, true” European army, echoing an identical call by her French counterpart Emmanuel Macron the week before.

Angela Merkel calls for creation of ‘real, true’ EU army
Speaking on Wednesday, the commission’s spokesperson tried to attribute credit for the idea to Mr Juncker, noting that he had previously endorsed such a force.

“Let me clarify that the first one who spoke about the EU army four years ago was someone called Jean-Claude Juncker,” they said.

“Memory is short nowadays in Brussels and the capitals but people here present, you are aware of who launched this idea.”

The spokesperson added: “We are delighted that both the president of the French republic and the German chancellor, with a few days interval, publicly backed this idea."
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Comment by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on EU Army.

www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_160495.htm

" But I have been equally clear about the fact that EU efforts
must not compete with NATO, must not duplicate NATO, because NATO remains the bedrock for European security. We have to remember that after Brexit 80% of NATO’s defence expenditure will come from non-EU NATO Allies. And 3 of the four battlegroups we have deployed in the eastern part of the Alliance, in the Baltics countries and Poland will be led by non-EU Allies. And also geography matters. Norway in the North, and Turkey in the South, and Canada, USA and UK in the West are important for European security. So geography and money, these are facts which we cannot ignore."

I have watched and read so much information that there has been a distinct desire by the EU Commission to have an EU Army/Defence Force. NATO is not as pro the thought of an EU Army/Defence Force as some would believe.

I cannot make a decision if ' PESCO ' The Permanent Structured Cooperation will in time prove to be a force for good as hoped or another avenue further down the line for what we think of as an EU Army.

I do notice how some posters if they haven't a valid argument resort tocynical sarcasm!

I've spent over two years putting facts and valid arguments on this forum. They are very rarely responded to by Leavers. A bit of cynical sarcasm acts as light relief.

And I still don't understand why Leavers' predictions are held to be the absolute truth while Remainers (usually quoting experts in the field) are sneered at as speculation. Well, I do understand why they are, because Leavers don't like facts and experts, but it doesn't make Leavers' fortune telling any more valid.

So called exoerts not Do called, sorry.

Maisie No I am not clairvoyant. Do called experts get it wrong all the time. The chattering masses express their feelings and are not listened to, that is what happened with our Brexit vote, the government had not listened. There is discord in Germany and France, if we go, it will start a domino effect. Easy bee at the beginning of this post, summed it up in a few lines succinctly put. I do notice how some posters if they haven't a valid argument resort tocynical sarcasm!

European Army, just pipedreams rather than realistic prospects, all countries including the UK have substantial military capability. UK participates far more in overseas campaigns than most, although France does quite a lot, politically, action outside national borders is not popular in most countries.
Europe is most unlikely to get involved in any major campaign without NATO coordination and US involvement. The reality is that Europe as a whole does not have the capability to repel an attack by Russia, ( the only likely aggressor), and are not going to increase defense spending to enable that to be realistic.

The Andrew Marr programme about the history of the world a couple of nights ago was about the post war years in Britain, and we were in a terrible mess.

I concur.

MaizieD Just so you know - Angela Merkel announced, a couple of months ago, that the EU are planning an European Army. (I saw her say it on the TV - so it's not my 'clairvoyant powers'. It's a fact!)
As to another referendum ...why? We had our 'People's Vote'. It was to leave the EU. If we did have another referendum, and 'Remainers' won, what validity would that vote have? NONE!
It would only go to prove that we have no democracy in this country!

Former attorney general Dominic Grieve has rejected government claims that it would take more than a year to organise another referendum.

The Conservative MP, who is a supporter of the People's Vote campaign, said: "The timetable put forward by the government is simply wrong and they must be aware of it themselves."

He says another referendum could be carried out "swiftly and within a limited extension of Article 50".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/46874049

If we do leave, within 2 - 4 years Germany will follow, then France.

Always amazed by Leavers' clairvoyant powers.

Tell them the economy is going to tank, based on the forecasts of just about every national & international economics expert and they'll tell you no-one can tell what will happen in the future.

Yet they can see with absolute clarity into the future where there are EU armies, Federal states ruled by Germany and total disintegration of the European project.

Marvellous, aren't they?

Sorry Lily it is obvious when looking again! Think I've been brainwashed by some of the stupid comments. Must concentrate.

Makes me laugh when people start invoking the 'Dunkirk spirit' (not you, Lily, I know you're taking the mick..) but Dunkirk was an ignominious defeat...lots of people died..we scraped some of our forces back by the skin of our teeth..left all our equipment behind.. And now people want to deliberately inflict it on us...

If we do leave, within 2 - 4 years Germany will follow, then France. Personally, I would rather leave with an agreement than without, but if that's the only way once sonbe it, rather than shackled, we will manage, we have been through worse and without this shambles.

Nonnie, tongue was very firmly in cheek, obviously.

Lily, the straight bananas was a hoax. You still haven't seen any.

So you want to inflict misery and hardship on your children and grandchildren, nice!!

I think we should re kindle the Dunkirk spirit and see Johnny Foreigner off.

He can eat all the straight bananas he likes.