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What next?

(513 Posts)
ayse Tue 15-Jan-19 20:46:40

Where is the vote in the Commons going to take us next. Whether remainder or leaver, this is a disgraceful shambles!

Bridgeit Tue 15-Jan-19 20:57:37

Yes it is, who knows how it will all end!

EllanVannin Tue 15-Jan-19 21:07:28

There should never have been a vote in the first place. We've always been okay in the EU especially as it's been they who've funded a lot of projects in this country.

Labaik Tue 15-Jan-19 21:09:52

I have been wondering tonight if those who have campaigned to leave the EU [and voted for it] are proud of what they've brought this country to sad ...

dragonfly46 Tue 15-Jan-19 21:14:47

Unfortunately Labaik the ones I know are proud of what they have done!

Bridgeit Tue 15-Jan-19 21:19:57

I don’t think they care,
I feel sad for the younger generations.

winterwhite Tue 15-Jan-19 21:26:09

Surely by any standard the prime minister should resign? How can she retain a shred of authority? Esp after delaying the vote for a month.
Then revoke Article 50 and start again.

Sarahmob Tue 15-Jan-19 21:50:46

I don’t understand how we can revoke Article 50 and then start again. Democracy says we should be leaving (I voted remain incidentally). What worries me is that it’s a total shambles and we must be a laughing stock throughout Europe. Maybe a coalition govt would be the best way forward.

Davidhs Tue 15-Jan-19 21:52:13

TM accepted the poison chalice to solve Brexit and will see it through to the end and so she should, anyone else, Tory or Labour would face the same problem, there is no majority for anything - at present.
It seems “no deal” is off the agend nobody credible wants it, but the general public being interviewed are saying “ sod the EU, leave” maybe the media is biased maybe not, but a second vote that says leave is not what parliament wants.

Davidhs Tue 15-Jan-19 22:02:39

The EU are not going to allow Article 50 to be revoked unilaterally in that way, they have said that a UK parliamentary vote could revoke it permanently. They are not going to change their red lines on freedom of movement etc, that would risk their core values, they would rather us leave than risk the EU.

eazybee Tue 15-Jan-19 22:14:07

The people who have created much of this chaos are the remain campaigners who refused to accept the result of a democratic vote, and have used every means in their power to thwart and destroy that result.
This has been compounded by Theresa May's attempt to appease an implacable EU, which is determined we shall not leave.

paddyann Tue 15-Jan-19 22:19:20

Lot of nonsense about the EU on here.We've done very well out of it since we joined.I dont understand the people in areas where they've had masses of EU funding voting to leave....do they REALLY think the UK government will make up the difference in their finances? Deluded !

PECS Tue 15-Jan-19 22:20:45

Just come back from watching a very moving Danish anti- war film: Land of Mine. Brought home how we should all be looking for our common humanity..not what divides us. Difficult & uncertain times to come for sure.

ayse Tue 15-Jan-19 22:25:50

Seems to me that both sides have rejected May’s deal, not just the remainders. Very few have proved willing to accept the deal ie the vote. I for one think that crashing out could result in civil unrest as food prices rise dramatically, thus the army is on standby! I may be accused of scaremongering and a worse case scenario but there are so many uncertainties with just leaving.

MaizieD Tue 15-Jan-19 22:29:11

The people who have created much of this chaos are the remain campaigners who refused to accept the result of a democratic vote, and have used every means in their power to thwart and destroy that result.

Remain campaigners had absolutely no part in the UK-EU negotiations and Remain voices were not listened to at all by May and the government. That being so, I'm completely at a loss to understand how they've managed to 'destroy' your lovely Brexit. Was it the weekly gatherings around the Remain cauldron weaving spells and muttering curses on Brexit? Or the mass thought transference sessions which influenced the Brexit Ministers and May to act like complete imbeciles (I have to say, those worked rather well, didn't they wink ).

One thing which is absolutely certain, and to try to remove it would be an outrage, is that in a democracy one has an absolute right to lawfully oppose anything which one wants to oppose. Which is what Remainers have done.

GabriellaG54 Tue 15-Jan-19 22:31:23

Would Corbyn take hold of the poisoned chalice now he has the chance, or us that a step too far for him?
After all, he'd have to walk the walk after the the promises he's made.
He'll need plenty of good, trustworthy foot soldiers around him and get things moving pretty quickly to satisfy his followers.
What's the betting that, with Labour in the hot seat, anything that goes awry will be blamed on the mess Conservatives left. Thus, it will be years before any start is made on the NHS, railways, Police, immigration, housing, benefits and the rest.
A mountain to climb but has he got the expertise and energy to get to the top?

GabriellaG54 Tue 15-Jan-19 22:33:15

*is, not us.

MaizieD Tue 15-Jan-19 22:36:31

I may be accused of scaremongering

Blimey, ayse! You're well behind!

Crashing out without a deal has been mentioned from time to time for at least the last 6 months on this forum. We even had a thread about stockpiling.

Responses were predictable...

Yes, you will be accused of scaremongering grin

MaizieD Tue 15-Jan-19 22:40:04

Corbyn won't win the vote of no confidence. There will be no general election.

I predict that May will ask for an A50 extension, though the EU might not be minded to grant it unless for a GE or a People's Vote.

Anja Tue 15-Jan-19 22:58:11

I doubt anyone truly visualised this total chaos. I’m mindful of the allegedly Chinese curse ‘may you live in interesting times!’

Labaik Tue 15-Jan-19 23:49:04

I think people who foresaw the problem about the Irish border saw it coming, but no one seemed to be listening...

ayse Wed 16-Jan-19 00:22:52

MaizieD, I don’t very often get too involved in political debate as they can be quite challenging. However, Europe as a whole is becoming a simmering pot of resentment. This does not bode well for the future.hmm

absent Wed 16-Jan-19 00:46:46

Was it really a democratic vote? Some didn't vote and some voted remain – so those, in total, didn't choose change to the status quo. Fewer than this total voted to leave. Quite apart from the fact that the referendum was a stupid idea in the first place, as well as being ill-informed, people were blatantly lied to.

Lyndiloo Wed 16-Jan-19 04:16:19

We voted to leave the EU. We live in a democratic country. So we have to leave! Deal or no deal!
This 'deal' that Teresa May put forward, for many reasons, was not acceptable. And would cost us 39 Billion pounds!
It looks like the EU will not consider any other deal. "This is the only deal." The 'only deal' doesn't sound like a 'good deal' to me!
Whatever happens now, politically, is all 'up in the air'. Time will tell.
I think that we should just go for a 'no deal', and walk away. We do have other things on the table. 70 trade deal offers, world-wide. And Japan has asked us to join their 'common market' along with Australia, New Zealand and Canada. We never get to hear of these positive aspects from the BBC or other media - it's all just gloom and doom.
We'll be OK. We might have to face a couple of hard years, but in the end it will be preferable, for us, as a country to be out of the EU. We'll be better off. We'll have our sovereignty back, our own laws, control our own borders.
I don't want the UK to be a small state in a Federal Europe. I don't want a German controlled European Army (sends shivers down my spine!)
Back in 1972, we joined the 'Common Market', not expecting that it would balloon into an institution that controls almost every aspect of our lives.
And it is a corrupt organisation. Non-elected leaders, no accounts audited since 2013, money wasted hand-over-fist - not least by the trek (for 1 week) by all EMPs, plus staff, from Brussels to Strassborg, every month. (Why?)
No! We should get out. That's what we voted for.
And, for the sake of democracy, all 'Remainers' and 'Brexiteers' should now come together, and make sure that our hard-won and treasured Democracy is still a force in this great country of ours.

ayse Wed 16-Jan-19 06:04:27

We don’t “have to leave”! This is a democratic country so we can change our minds. We could have another “advisory’ referendum! The whole process is such a mess and personally I would prefer to remain. I just wish that those that apparently know better would get on with something positive and find a consensus.
It’s about time we sorted the NHS, housing, education and social care with some long term planning. Not much hope of that in foreseeable future, meanwhile the poorest in our very wealthy society are suffering. It’s a disgraceful state to be in.