What next?

Very well said Lyndiloo

I shudder at the level of political consciousness in this country - the talk of a democratic vote - the vote we had was anything but democratic because democracy implies 'agency' - that people have the ability to make free choices when able to weigh up one informed situation over another and anybody with half a brain should be able to work out for themselves that when the Brexit vote was taken the information being peddled by the Brexiteers was a pack of lies. X, Y and Z would result but the evidence is clear, all the premises that these promises were made about were flawed - now we have a generation of young people who have to live out their futures in a country that is already going to the dogs - higher prices, longer NHS waiting times, fewer amenities as many Euro workers have gone home. The idea that we could just return to the situation we were in before we entered Europe in the first place is a nonsense and shows the lack of political understanding the Leave voters possess - we could never be returned to that state because then we could still trade with the majority of Europe as the majority of European countries were not in what was originally the European Common Market. Now they are. Yes the situation in Parliament makes us a laughing stock but Remainers forecast this situation and it has come true. What Brexiteers forecast has not come true.

Have any of you stopped to consider what will happen to the UK if Scotland pushes for a new referendum on independence, wins it, leaves the UK and applies to join the EU?

Improbable, you say? Surely not any more improbable than the present situation?

I find it insulting that people like me who voted leave are being told that we didn’t know what we were voting for I knew exactly, and I still believe it is the right thing to do. The EU clearly needs us more than we need the EU. Are we expected to have more and more referenda until the remainders get what they want - that is not democracy. I fear that we will end up with the odious Jeremy Corbyn as our next PM.

Grampie. Blair,? who by his actions, and only by the skin of our teeth we escaped WW3, Brown? and now, possibly, Corbyn.?
Say goodbye to our green and pleasant land.

As yet I don't think you really need to be concerned about being the laughing stock of Europe. Here in Denmark many businesses are concerned that the UK leaving the EU will affect trade with the UK, as duty will be levied on imports, which means that container lorries etc. will be kept longer in our ports until the Customs and in the case of foodstuffs or live animals the Veterinary control has inspected and passed imports. Work has started today in various ports implementing the contingency plans for Britain leaving the EU without any deal in place.

Brexit, I may say, is considered a foregone conclusion here. Presumably most firms that export goods to the UK have plans to sell their goods to other countries once you leave.

Lyndiloo you said it far better than I could have done.
Let's just get on with it.
I am 100% certain that within months other EU countries will be asking to leave too.

Counting the votes of people who didn't vote has been done by government before ..everyone who didn't vote in the Scottish DEVOLUTION referendum of 1979 was counted as voting no.The ACTUAL result was a win for the supporters of devolution but the westminster crooks decided we weren't having devolution so that was the terms we had to abide by.

It took another 20 years before we did get devolution.
Now they want to dismantle our Parliament,one thats fairer and more progressive than theirs has ever been .Of course they cant afford to let us go,they depend on us to pay their bills .Welcome to the REAL corrupt world of Westminster,where they will do all they can to keep themselves in jobs and their money our of reach of the taxman .
The selfservatives have to put themselves first ,its conservativepolicy!!

Great post Lyndiloo, but I fear democracy is dead.

That should be small business rather than small parties. I have to remember to preview first. I seem to be making more mistakes day by day now.

freyja,

Why try again and again to count the votes of the people who didn’t vote?

It doesn’t help,

As Remainer I hope parliament honours the result of our EU Referendum.

As promised by Blair and Brown, demanded by Clegg and delivered by Cameron.

I don't see why either Leave or Remain voters should be blamed for the way that the Tories have handled this. Not only should they have set up a cross party committee with experienced negotiators, they should also have made preparation by, eg, increasing the training of health workers, rather than reducing it, investing in industry, particularly small parties etc., having discussions with smaller countries, many of whom have been very frustrated as they see this as an opportunity for them.
There is nothing about the process that the Tories have got right and yet the people that get blamed are:-
1. Corbyn
2. the EU
3. Leave voters
4. Remain voters.
The Tories don't even seem to be on the list of much of the media and many individuals.
It was always going to be difficult but the public should be able to expect a minimum level of competence from their government.

Blinko
Tin mining in Cornwall???? what Poldark century are you living in.? Our fishing industry is all we have left and if the EU has its way then the lord have mercy on these brave persons who risk their lives to keep this industry afloat.

barnet and freyjia agree with your intelligent comments tickingbird it is not a personality contest, we are voting to elect a government.

Firstly it should be noted that those coming to the UK from the EU pay more in taxes than they take out of the system. Please don't blame them. Over the last couple of years a lot of the Poles have left because their own economy has improved and the £ has lost so much value it is not worth them working here.

Good first post Elaine, don't agree with the second.

Lindiloo are you suggesting that if we leave without paying the 39 billion things will be better? Would you commit to something and then refuse to pay for it? What message would you think that would send out to any country negotiating any sort of deal with us? Don't trust the UK, they don't pay their bills!

Please provide evidence of the 70 trade deal offers. I'm surprised by that.

25Avalon you are mistaken, most of our trade is either with the EU or with the 70+ countries we have an EU deal with.

We elect our MPs to make decisions for us .
Most people I would suggest knew far less than the MPs when we voted in 2016.
However ,the majority still voted to leave and therefore leave we must.
There can be no "people's vote"
We have had the people's vote and the people voted to leave.

I think the sad part is the divisive nature of Brexit; that and the sheer arrogance of our politicians.
I do think that we knew too little to properly inform our vote in 2016. I was a remain voter for that reason. If we have another vote it might but only might help the country as I fear the divisions will still be entrenched.

I agree with those who think in a democracy we have a right to change our minds, in light of new information (for example every 4 years when we elect a new government.)

What now for us I wonder?

@Lyndiloo I totally agree with everything you say, I. too, voted to leave for exactly the same reasons!

What we are reading here in this thread mirrors exactly what is happening up and down the four countries of the UK. We can't agree, the population can't agree and Parliament can't agree.

TM should have 'parleyed' - as indeed where the term 'parliament' comes from -with people across the political divide and engaged with the public not just Tory stalwarts.

She seems to be blinkered. She's not engaging even now with the Labour front bench. She's seeking to engage with some LP members on the back benches. She is, in short, still playing puerile games.

I'm puzzled how, after such a resounding defeat she has not resigned.

I keep hearing that 'the people voted to leave the EU and we should respect that but to me the numbers do not add up.
They say 17 million voted to leave, and that it was the majority of the people, well as far as I am aware at the last census there were 62 million people living in the country, which leaves 45 million who do not have a voice. So if you take away those that cannot vote such as children until the age of 18 and those that are not British citizen it seems a hell of long way from 'the people had their say'.

What they really mean is that out of those that voted, 17 million wanted to leave the EU, that was 52% of 'voters' not 52% of British citizens. They also do not say that 48% of the 'voters' voted to remain and 26% choose not to vote either way. , which is 78% of the voters. Now I am no mathematician but these sums do not make any sense.
Another confusing element to all this is that I and 48% voted to leave , so why is my vote not counted, I have not had my say, I am being ignored in this so called democracy and worst shouted down to keep my mouth shout because 'the people have voted'.

Nigel Forage who took his wages from us the EU MP but spent all his time plotting to leave. Did the people who voted for him wanted this? This hippocrete and traitor said before the referendum that he will only accept the vote if is was 60/40 and would call for another vote if it was smaller. Now he is parading around as if he owes us.

Again how did we ever fall for these lies and who has benefited from the UK leaving the EU, certainly not the people of this country.

To solve this mess we need either a general election so we can hear what each party purposes to do to solve the problem, relying on the fact they must be honest and have a mandate. Or we have a second vote and make sure that everyone is heard, even those that are not sure.

One thing is for certain, we cannot carry on like this.
.

Why did the UK elect to be' in' ? How were we to benefit by our 'choice'?
What were our expectations that now observes a majority who wish to be' untethered' and have voted 'out'.
It is not just those described by some as ' having had your day' who may have chosen to 'out', but to accept there are ' 'outer's' who were not even born when the UK was given the opportunity to make a decision for a future
within the EU.

Remain with what:-
-Germany in recession
-France in flames
-Italy facing a banking meltdown
-Greece perpetually beggared by the Euro and by
Germany-centric policy
-Hungary and other countries heading for the far right
-uncontrollable immigration
and so on?

I would be the first to say that the EU has delivered some benefits but it is far from the shining star some Remainers seem to think it is.

Mummsymags. A Labour government? Led by Corbyn? Heaven forbid!

GabriellaG54 i take your point and i don’t wish to come across as racist because i’m not. I know many of these people come here for a better life and work hard. All credit to them. However, for many people that live in areas where there is a high concentration of EE citizens it's difficult. The Roma gypsy children regularly climb on cars and bounce around on bonnets, roofs and their parents can’t see anything wrong with it. Most of the cars their parents drive are old bangers, untaxed with no MOT. It’s this clash of cultures that causes the problems but certain liberal elites think it’s racist to tell them they can’t behave like that over here. I’m not tarring them all with the same brush; i’m just trying to explain why some people voted leave and want free movement stopping.

Omg!! The very last thing we need is a Corbyn/Abbott led government. Corbyn has never so much as fun a Union. Utterly inept even more than May.

What we do need is the sensible labour MPs and sensible Tory MPs to form a proper centre party.