What next?

My children did not get a vote.

He does not have the right to decide my childrens future.

I try and shut the subject down at family gatherings. He goes on and on about it. Anyway, he will be the one to lose in the future as I have no respect left. How can a Grandparent continue with this farce when all evidence shows a looming disaster?

my vote counts as much as another...

a fabulous voters leave, democracy it called majority... easy to understand x much love... we won end of..... big kisses always

Are you for real Global ?

Urmston what a very patient post from you to MaizieD
After a ridiculous, personal and angry onslaught from her!

Globaleconomy are you over here from Mumsnet by any chance? If you really speak to your Father angrily when he has every right to vote whichever way he likes then you are heading for a family bust up.
Was he as angry with you for voting to Remain? bet not.

And another thing. My elderly parents got a vote but my children were too young by one year. They are of voting age now and their whole future stretches in front of them. No say in it at all.

Call that democracy? Ninety year olds voting on twenty year olds future. Disgusting.

Actually Nonnie I was heartened on 31 January when you posted this:

‘maryelize it is 'intellectually lazy* to be rude about people who a different, though valid. opinion to you. You don't have the only opinion and not a better opinion. I have probably seen things you haven't and you will have seen things I haven't. We are both entitled to our opinion but trying to put other posters down is unnecessary and shows a lack simple kindness. This is not the first time I have seen you do this.’

You put that so much better than I had.

The response from MaizieD was predictably bellicose, encapsulating why angry debate is basically no debate at all.

I’m sorry if I’ve disappointed you Nonnie
I too feel like you and I had made some good progress understanding each other’s point of view. Listening and being reasonable.

But I mentioned Venezuela because MaizieD was so furious and fired up about the idea of ‘food riots’ etc. She had even asked andyC if he was looking forward to it! I felt this was an unnecessarily flippant remark. And you had said about shortages of food & probably ‘much else’ besides.

The truth is that none of us know how this will pan out. Yes perhaps I’m too trusting in believing our government won’t let us starve or be put in harm’s way due to lack of essential medicine. And I do appreciate my ‘faith’ in our futures will annoy people and I understand their anger. But I can’t help my optimism. Misplaced or not.

MaizieD
Was that a bit of a Donald Tusk moment

I am so angry with my Leave voting Dad. He has damaged the future of his beloved Grandchildren. I have just expressed my fears for the economic future of this country and the loss of jobs going abroad. He dismissed my fears as 'rubbish'.

I feel alienated. It is now a straight choice for Leave voters - stick to Brexit & screw up your family's future (plus lose all respect) or admit that Brexit is a giant fuckcluster of illogical shite. If you get your precious No Deal then you won't be able to make trade deals as the USA, Europe and probably many other countries will see us as breaking the Good Friday Agreement. We are a tiny little island.

It is not the 1950's. It is important to stay as part of a big trading bloc since we now live in a global economy.

Listen to Baroness Varsi:

www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/baroness-warsi-on-the-ways-to-change-the-world-podcast/621683058285326/

re my comment earlier about the other european countries having their own problems . a headline in a french journal today:
"Le vice-Premier ministre italien Luigi Di Maio. / AFP
La France rappelle son ambassadeur en Italie après "des attaques sans précédent depuis la guerre" "
Italy is blaming France for spread of the gilets Jaunes movement to their own country. And seeking a Europ-wide far right pressure group.

Hey Urmston no need for that about Venezuela and me, I never suggested such a thing. Up until now I have felt that you have been really understanding about our different views so I am disappointed.

I don't share you faith, what is it based on? Hope its not blind faith.

Why didn't you trust the government and the civil servants when they were telling you that leaving the EU was not a good idea?

That's what I'd really like to know.

There's no logic to this at all.

Sorry MaizieD
I really am. Let’s keep this nice if we can. I hate confrontation when it gets personal.
Maybe you’re right and I am too trusting. Only time will tell.

You are so trusting, Urmstongran

Cameron didn't have a clue what he was doing except that he was trying to keep the tory party together. He never expected a Leave vote. He ratted as soon as he found out his mistake and left us all to deal with the sh*tshow.

do you honestly believe DC would even have been allowed to call his referendum?

And who, pray, was going to stop him? Do you think that there is some higher authority that will stop idiotic tory Prime Ministers doing deeply stupid things?

MPs did try to make it less of a potential disaster. They tried to ensure a supermajority but they were airily informed that it was only advisory and didn't need a supermajority. Then the stupid idiot went round saying that the result was final and would be implemented.

And the really, really annoying thing is that had it been an official mandatory referendum it could have been legally overturned because of the illegalities of the Leave campaigns. But it isn't and it can't.

And if you start telling me about faith and backbones I will stop being polite. I deal in cold fact, not hopes and wishes.

We have to trust the government and the much lauded civil servants to keep us safe.

WELL, YOU DIDN'T TRUST THEM WHEN THEY SAID THAT LEAVING THE EU WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA. WTF DO YOU SUDDENLY TRUST THEM NOW?

God, you've triggered me...

From the latest polls ie U Gov Jan 2019, the Leavers are now in the minority. When asked In hindsight do you think Britain was in the right or wrong to vote to leave the EU. right was 41% wrong 47%. The rest were don't knows. In 2016 people didn't know the terms we would be leaving under when they voted. There are flaws in this so called democracy of ours.

The U.K. is not Venezuela MaizieD and Nonnie
Food riots?
I don’t think so.
Us Leavers will put up with some shortages if we have to and eat something else. We shan’t starve you know!

The NHS has made contingency plans regarding medicines. We have to trust the government and the much lauded civil servants to keep us safe.

We must try not to worry or overthink.

There are intelligent people who are on the Leave side too - believe it or not - not all the brainy people voted Remain. We need to have some faith and grow a backbone. If this as going to be Armageddon (for real) do you honestly believe DC would even have been allowed to call his referendum?

yes you are right, a bright new future. so true.

majority voters out, so democracy will be carried out.

There already appears to be a shortage of some medicines. But hey, who cares about that when we have this bright new future ahead of us.

I'd love to have your confidence ac. I realise it's not all over til the fat (thin) lady sings, but I'd like to go to sleep and wake up when it's all over. I really do hope that we do not suffer shortage of vital things like medicines, medical treatments and some foodstuffs. Unfortunately, it's the poor in society, not the like of the Rees Moggs, or Johnsons who will suffer any deprivations, as we are not all in this together. One thing for sure, public services couldn't get much worse.......I hope.

lyndiloo thanks a great post from you so true.

I so identify, we just leave, end of the story.

We will thrive and prosper, and the majority of voters voted leave, so in our democracy, we must leave totally, as you say.

I look forward to that very much, we are a democracy.

Maizie you forgot being poorer, prices going up and shortages of food, probably much more as well.

Is the food riots you're looking forward to, andy?

Or not being able to get life saving medicines?