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Where did Brexit come from and where is it going to take the UK?

(32 Posts)
MaizieD Thu 24-Jan-19 00:08:59

Sir Ivan Rogers gave a lecture to the UCL Euorpean Institute a couple of night ago. It was titled: Where did Brexit come from and where is it going to take the UK?

As can be seen from this rather incomplete Wikipedia entry he was a very senior civil servant, in important posts under both tory and Labour governments. He also spent some time in industry. Before he resigned he was
the Permanent Representative of the United Kingdom to the European Union. The United Kingdom's foremost diplomatic representative to the European Union, and head of the United Kingdom Representation to the European Union (UKREP)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogers

Sir Ivan knows what he is talking about. Far better, I suggest than just about any politician. I think he should be listened to.

His opening remarks:

We desperately need clear and honest thinking about our choices not just for the weeks but for the years, indeed decades, ahead. I continue to think that our political debate is bedevilled by what, at the time I resigned, I termed “muddled thinking”, and by fantasies and delusions as to what our options really are in the world as it is.

As opposed to several different worlds people on different sides of the debate would prefer to inhabit.

To be clear at the outset, I think these fantasies, which one would have hoped would be dissipating by now in the face of reality, are being propagated on all sides. The denialism is pretty universal. But if we are to take good decisions about our future, it is now genuinely urgent that we get beyond the myth-making.

Why then have we reached such a severe moment of political and constitutional crisis?

www.ucl.ac.uk/european-institute/sites/european-institute/files/sir_ivan_rogers_lecture_ucl_22012019.pdf

More tomorrow

varian Fri 01-Feb-19 18:34:20

Nigel Farage, who was the favourite guest on QT for years (he appeared 27 times when only one other MEP was ever invited to speak - and he was the Tory arch-brexiter Daniel Hannan), has let down the British people in the most disgraceful manner. He was our representative on the EU Fishing Committee and attended only one meeting out of 42!!!!

Not content with dishonestly accepting his salary as an MEP, he has several part-time jobs, including being a presenter on LBC, a radio phone-in channel. Here he is receiving a call from someone who now regrets having believed him and voting leave.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/leaver-turned-remainer-nigel-farage-changed-brexit/

jura2 Fri 01-Feb-19 19:54:33

It is clear it was all about stopping new EU rules re tax evasion for the very rich.

And the most vulnerable, the most at risk in so many ways, were lied to fraudulently to exploit their anger and long neglect from politics.

It worked- it was very clever one has to admit. There is a good word in English for it, sh*fted.

petra Fri 01-Feb-19 20:17:03

here he is receiving a call from someone who now regrets having believed him and voting leave
If you had scrolled down to the comments you would see that there was a comment from a man who said that he had changed his mind. So had his wife and son * from remain to leave* so I think that 3 cancels out your one.

jura2 Fri 01-Feb-19 20:23:55

Daniel Hannan - the one who clearly stated that 'no-one but no-one was even considering leaving the Single Market and Customs Union' and now totally denies it, despite video evidence of him clearly stating this?!?

jura2 Fri 01-Feb-19 20:25:47

And Farage who campaigned and said again and again, on every possible TV programme and interview 'why can't we be like Norway and Switzerland' - and now say a 'Norway type deal is not at all what the 'people' want?

varian Fri 01-Feb-19 20:32:14

He has absolutely no idea what these 17m people wanted in 2016, let alone what they might want now or what the majority of our 65m population might want now.