Losing NHS coverage under Brexit

... and if returning for full treatment, where would they live?

Framilode, can you imagine someone with cancer having to return to UK from Spain for each treatment?

Maime. I am told the French system is good but a foreigner moving there with a pre-existing condition would have to pay full cost instead of NHS.

Or have I missed something .

If you hold a British passport and are in receipt of the British state pension you are entitled to NHS care on the same basis as anyone in the UK. This would cover retirees in Spain, France etc.

Day6- again you are confusing several things here. People who travel as tourist, those who come from outside the EU/EEA and those who are RESIDENT in EU/EEA- and became so, having carefully researched that they would be able to access reciprocal health care (here in Switzerland we have to pay the first 300 Swiss Francs each year, then 10 % up to 700 CHF- so about 1000 per year. There is no way of covering this with top up insurance.

Your comment 'Those people living in Europe will have to consider their options.' is quite correct- and this is what is causing so much stress, fears and worries. As per the article quoted. I imagine those already in the system in France will be OK, at least for a while. But it may well become much more difficult, or even impossible - if we drop out without a deal.

But since you said that the NHS is not a bottomless pit (and I agree there) - do you think that 1000s upon 1000s of British retirees in the EU/EEA having to return because of loss of healthcare, will make this better - or indeed much worse.

Notwithstanding that they would return having lost more or less everything - and would be in need of housing and social support?

EU rules are that reciprocal care means that the people qualifying for it get the care at the cheapest rate a national would receive it. Some very poor people would get it free via a means test but that would not cover another country’s National as one of the tests is that the migrant is self sufficient and not reliant a burden on the host state

Glad you responded Mamie. I saw one of the Govt notices earlier this week and it gave me the impression that if you were already covered by the French system that in effect would continue. Puma contributions if you need to pay them are something like 8%.
If you are a U.K. pensioner you get your EHIC card from the U.K. still which shows you are entitled to NHS care if you are in the U.K. as you have contributed for 40 years in my case.
Another thing about French healthcare is that if you have a serious or ongoing health problem such as cancer or heart problems your health costs are entirely covered by the state.

If you buy your travel insurance in France it is much cheaper than U.K. the insurance companies are not allowed to ask about any medical conditions and for some things your house insurance will as a last resort cover you for certain things - I still have a problem getting my head around that one so we don’t rely on it! The last time we took out insurance we had it for 7 wheeks - 2 in U.K. and 5 in USA and it cost €110 each. This covered everything except our flights as we had bought them with a Credit card so they were covered. Of course if you take a flight which starts in the EU at the moment you have great protection from EU regulations.
No one really knows yet how anyone will be affected on B day as a lot will depend how the U.K. treats the EU citizens living in Britain - which from what I have seen so far is absolutely dreadful and makes me ashamed to say I am English.

It does depend what you mean by 'reciprocal'. UK residents do not get the same, always free, care, we get whatever the people of the country we are in get which usually means some sort of payment and/or insurance.

Previously there have been discussions on GN about charging non-UK citizens for NHS care and it seems it is not a system we are happy to adopt because it is difficult to operate and expensive. Don't know why other countries can do it and we can't.

Davidhs I can't imagine anyone wishing to return to the UK for treatment from France. Apart from the fact that it would be pretty daft to travel with a serious illness, we have fantastic health care here. Third country nationals currently manage to move to Europe and get health cover (we know lots of Australians and Americans here).

Day6 the S1 form actually benefits the UK as we cost far less than we would if we were resident in the UK. The S1 form currently works with Switzerland so it is not EU dependent. It is actually in everybody's interests to continue it and I know that there has been discussion about continuing it, especially for those already in residence on Brexit day.
And yes some of us are still UK tax payers.

If there is “no deal” retiring anywhere abroad will need careful thought because reciprocal health care is going to be questionable. France is close enough to return to the UK for any major treatment although it will complicate any tests or checkups. Those with complex chronic conditions may well find it impossible and have to change their retirement plans, expats very often return to take advantage of the NHS as they age, that will probably happen earlier .

The arrangements changed a couple of years ago and you can now enter the PUMA system if you are living in France in a settled fashion. I think it is available after three months residence. This gives you access to the French system on the usual 70% basis with 30% covered by a top-up insurance. You would pay a percentage contribution to PUMA from rental income, but not from pension income, though you would become liable for one extra tax, the CSG. We would be in the same situation as French pensioners.
People in the system with an S1 are already effectively in PUMA, but their costs are currently charged back to the UK. This would end in the event of no deal. It would continue if the WA passes.
It should be a smooth transfer over to PUMA. People should not be encouraging others to panic. The French authorities have expressed their support for our situation and are on the case. As others have said RIFT is an excellent source of support.

Those British retirees have paid into the system all their lives - many are still paying their taxes in the UK.

And what on earth has the EU got to do with USA, Singapore or South Africa???

Fennel, no I can't, I do not live in France. But even then- Brtis working in France will be able to- there is no guarantee that will be the case for retirees post Brexit. Especially those who pay taxes in the UK (like ex police, teachers, civil servants, etc).

www.french-property.com/guides/france/public-services/health/puma
It's not clear whether you need to have been in the french tax system for some time.
Where are Mamie, Welshwife and Sodapop?
They should know more than the rest of us.

Form S1 gave UK retirees in the EU and EEA access to reciprocal health care.

ONLY as long as we remained in the EU. That was the deal.

The storm clouds regarding our EU membership were gathering at the beginning of this century, if not before.

There were NEVER any guarantees.

EU membership or not, policy changes regarding the NHS (the like of which doesn't exist elsewhere - or in very few countries) may well have been implemented - to affect those living abroad. Moving away involves a loss of things that are familiar, which includes engaging with foreign health care systems. It is a gamble and the EU has been wobbling, for various reasons, over the years.

It's powers have also been questioned throughout Europe. Many feel that it will collapsed in the not too distant future, Brexit or no Brexit. Read the arguments.

The NHS is not a bottomless pit of finance, equipment, specialists etc. We all know it is long overdue a thorough overhaul.

Those people living in Europe will have to consider their options. Every time we travel abroad healthcare insurance costs us a fortune because of our pre-existing conditions. We have to pay it, or stay put, or gamble on travelling without it, which we wouldn't do. It is extremely expensive. It's the price we pay for aging and being more in need of health care unfortunately. I imagine that applies throughout the world, unless anyone can tell me differently.

Jura - I told you, they can join the french system. They should have got cracking ages ago.
This is what we would have done if we had stayed. Some might even get in for free, as it's means tested.
I don't think this is possible for WoodGreenie though, I could be wrong, try to find a link.

'you wouldn't travel to the USA/Singapore/South Africa, etc, etc, without health insurance.'

well no, of course not. Which is why we have holiday/travel insurance for those countries. EHIC provides emergency health care for UK travellers to the EU and EEA - this will not be the case post Brexit- so holiday insurance will have to go up massively.

But we are talking here about British people who are RESIDENT in EU/EEA - not tourists- and who are UK pensioners- and who were covered by form S1 at the time of the decision to move- and will now find themselves without cover. Again, which company will consider giving someone over 65 with pre-existing conditions, never mind a serious illness - a private healthcare policy - with unicorns on top.

And yes, I also agree paddyann that weekend A&E cases and self-inflicted harm/brawling incidents are a drain on services. I think we all do.

However, if drunks can't be treated it could follow that smokers pay a penalty, as do the obese, drug-users, etc, etc, etc. It's not a precedent we ought to set. All cases cannot be reviewed.

It's a dangerous road to go down too and admin costs and collection of charges would probably outweigh any savings.

'Most people who leave Britain have to arrange a health care insurance policy, and pay for it, in the country they move to. I'd imagine that would be an urgent concern for those emigrating.'

NO Day6- not if you very carefully studied your rights before your move. Form S1 gave UK retirees in the EU and EEA access to reciprocal health care. So there was NO need to arrange private insurance- because as you had paid all your life for the system in your home country, it would pass on to the new country of residence, via Form S1. As you so clearly said in the same message 'you take your pension rights with you' - including health care provision.

If we crash without a deal, those UK pensioners will suddenly find themselves without cover. Have you tried to get Private Health Insurance with multiple health conditions and over the age of 65?

MOST EU nationals living here WORK AND PAY TAXES

Of course they do, and rightly so, and as a consequence they can benefit from NHS health care. I didn't say otherwise.

If you don't live here, work here or contribute in any way you should not be able to have expensive treatment/operations for free. We all know the NHS struggles from over-use. Health tourism alone isn't the reason, but it's one loophole that could be closed.

It's an extremely altruistic NHS, but most travellers do have to have health insurance in other countries to pay for the treatment received.

The british tax payer keeps the institution afloat. I wouldn't want to turn people in need away but you wouldn't travel to the USA/Singapore/South Africa, etc, etc, without health insurance. The same should apply in the UK too.

It was one of the major reasons we decided our dream of retiring abroad was not for us.

MOST EU nationals living here WORK AND PAY TAXES .many run businesses employing "brits" .Its this ridiculous attitude thats causing division .Health tourism isn't nearly the problem Brexiteers make it out to be,far more money is wasted on Drunken british youth tying up services and assaulting NHS staff EVERY week of EVERY year .

If you decide to live/work/retire abroad you take your pension rights with you. Most people who leave Britain have to arrange a health care insurance policy, and pay for it, in the country they move to. I'd imagine that would be an urgent concern for those emigrating.

The other side of the coin is that EU nationals will not (?) (may not?) be able to use the taxpayer-funded NHS after Brexit. Health tourism is a blight on the NHS. Given there will be immigration and border changes, I'd expect a policy change regarding use of the NHS before long.

There are very few countries in the world where health care is free. People living and working in the UK pay indirectly for their medical care too.

Have you tried taking Private Health Insurance with pre-existing conditions, and in old age?

Fennel - the current rights will stop on March 29th if we crash out with NO deal- NO deal = NO deal.

If reciprocal rights are lost through a no-deal Brexit then the only option for Brits living abroad is to take out private health insurance.