The Honerable MP for Yardley

Just want to endorse Anja's post of 08:06 and maryeliza54@s post of 08:58.

There seemed to be very little interest in the issue that Jess Philips was talking about, more repetition of the same old anti left wing slurs or criticism of a woman's behaviour if it is not deemed to be self effacing enough.

If someone has to be earning £30,000 or more to work here, does that mean that a salary of £30,000 would have to be offered to pick fruit etc. or doesn't it work like that?

I think Jess is a breath of fresh air in the HoC. She certainly calls a spade a shovel though! Her forthright style will endear her to some and alienate her from others.
On this actual thread I do agree with what she said.

I’m torn on this - I see that going back to basics doesn’t deal with the need ( ie we still need to decide on the best plaster as the blood is making an awful mess and the wound may get infected if we don’t at least clean it and cover it up) but it goes against the grain to discuss putting down the £30,000 limit so we can fill the gaps created by years of appalling education policies. Where does that get us?

Yes indeed.Thatvis why we have the debacle over the EU. I accept that there may be sime benefits from leaving but am not convinced they outweigh the benefits for remaining. There has been poor opportunity to explore the detail as all the threads just go back to basics!

But PECS the real issue, the principle underpinning all that is why are there staff shortages in schools, why is pay so low? Aren’t you sick to death of arguing which type of sticking plaster is needed as opposed to why the injury occurred or why it’s still bleeding?

Well PECS wouldn’t it be nice to have some proper right of centre well argued positions to discuss. Not going to happen

The DfE has had overseas recruitment campaigns for young teachers to try to address the staff shortage so many schools have. A newly qualified graduate teacher earns about £23k. Left hand needs to speak to right hand.

Anja ouch!

I would just like to say I'm not part of any 'faction' and I am not a member of any political party. I don't think that saying 'I'm not a fan' hijacks the thread and I haven't attacked anyone. What I have said is true because I heard it myself, didn't get it from social media and it does not reflect on any good JP has done. Her misology of men was quite clear.

Nothing wrong with saying 'I'm not a fan.

A sense of proportion is necessary.

Exactly so maryeliza but on threads there is a tendency to get very partisan. There is less debate and more tit for tat playground style arguing.

PECS as another left of centre person I don’t think there’s any politician on the left that I would agree with on everything they said. And like you I have interesting debates and discussions with my left of centre friends. What we do share is a general agreement on on principles but may disagree on the policies that are required to put those principles into action.

oops..posted too soon...
However I sometimes find myself posting defensively because of the intransigent or repetitive opinions ...

Anja posted in direct response to your OP without seeing subsequent posts. I do agree that too many of us may have a black and white view ( maybe red or blue would be better!) of politics. I am broadly left wing but do not find I can always support a politician/ policy simply because they are also ' broadly left' ! Most of my good friends share the same general political opinions but we still have interesting and robust ? debates. We are still good friends!

I agreed with her yesterday but have found her quite reactionary on other occassions. I admire her forthright approach though.

Anja. Are 'pink poodles' from the same group as 'pearl clutchers'?

Anja good analysis. But I don’t see any solution to this thread wrecking. And I’m sick to the back teeth of arguments about all opinions being equally valid - no they are not. Some opinions require knowledge and evidence before they have any validity at all. I also think the misogyny on GN is dreadful - as is the constant criticism of younger people and how hard we had it compared to them etc etc. As for the specific topic of this thread, it begs the bigger question doesn’t it about how labour is rewarded in general and the value we place ( non financial but sadly related) on different types of work and skills. But more specifically it demonstrates the utter stupidity and car crash that is Brexit.

Exactly Iam

Seems there are several forces at work here. There’s the right wingers who will not accept anything positive about a Labour MP, admit they CBA’d to look at the current link, and just hark back to a previous issue.

Then there’s those who have issues with current Labour leaders who every time fall for this tactic and are easy prey to the above. They allow themselves to be diverted and trot out parrot-fashion their usual rhubarb.

It’s almost impossible to have any sort of reasonable polical discussion without these two factions on GN, and do you know I would really have liked just some of these types to actually address the issue of this £30,000 wage and skilled workers.

Is that too much to ask? On a forum which caters for more the ‘mature’ it would seem that all you can expect is this petty behaviour, with just a few exceptions.

No wonder people leave. No wonder some of the deeper thinkers hardly post any more.

#igiveup

Both are examples of violent and inappropriate language.

Legitimising violent imagery ? Nothing like John McDonald repeating the call to lynch Esther McVey?

I can't be bothered with the nonsense accusations that JP is shouty and hates men.
I wish we had more MPs like JP. she isn't perfect - hands up anyone here who is. She's more than good enough - go Jess.

Thank you Jura

I’m not impressed by pink poodle replies.

I know little about her, and nothing about this previous comment.

Surely we are talking here about THAT speech in the HofC- and about the £30.000 minimum salary- which is indeed just ridiculous.

Saying "fuck off" directly to someone is, in my opinion, an unacceptably aggressive act intended to intimidate and belittle. And, as someone else mentioned, she did make the comment about knifing Corbyn in the front - presumably not voicing a desire or an intention but nevertheless legitimising violent imagery.

A word which disgusts me but it is used in this forum and few object

Anja what has relevance ever had to any thread on gn? Most of them go off on tangents

Sorry Nonnie but that is entirely irrelevant to this thread.