Gransnet forums

News & politics

The cliff edges nearer because May doesn’t want to split party!

(338 Posts)
Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 07:39:59

Theresa May has effectively ruled out Labour’s proposal for a Brexit compromise, stressing her objection to staying inside a customs union. “I am not clear why you believe it would be preferable to seek a say in future EU trade deals rather than the ability to strike our own deals?” she wrote to Jeremy Corbyn. The PM argued that her own Brexit plan “explicitly provides for the benefits of a customs union” in terms of avoiding tariffs, while allowing “development of the UK’s independent trade policy beyond our economic partnership with the EU”.

She accepted a customs union could potentially have delivered her a Commons majority but at the serious risk of splitting her party.

The letter comes amid a growing presumption that while May remains officially committed to putting a revised Brexit plan to MPs as soon as possible, in practice this is unlikely to happen before the end of February. Business leaders have called for quicker action, with the head of the CBI, Carolyn Fairbairn, saying the UK is “in the emergency zone of Brexit now” and the confusion will not just affect jobs and investment, but harm the UK as a long-term business destination.

Riverwalk Mon 11-Feb-19 08:02:50

This whole Brexit business came about to prevent a split in the Tory party, so nothing has changed, to quote May.

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 08:04:27

Putting the party before the country.

Anniebach Mon 11-Feb-19 08:08:40

Corbyn is putting himself before his party and the country

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 08:27:29

Like we should listen to the CBI?

Who have a very special history of being routinely wrong about almost every major policy debate for decades!

In the late 1980s, it supported the Exchange Rate Mechanism, with disastrous consequences.

In the late 1990s, it was cheerleading for us to join the Euro, an error we mercifully avoided.

Last year, of course, it backed the Stronger In campaign, the short-term section of whose doom-laden forecasts have since proved to be untrue, and would no doubt have been even more vocal had it not been for early criticism from Vote Leave.

Perhaps it ought to be reflecting on where it has gone wrong in the past, rather than giving us the benefit, once more, of its somewhat dubious wisdom?

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 08:29:46

Annie give it a bloody rest with the one-liners
🦜

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 08:35:08

Those ardent leavers I have spoken to seemed to be saying they were ok with the EU when it was ‘the Common Market’ ie when we came together as a customs union.

It was everything else that evolved from there since that seems to have alientated them.

Posts I read on another thread seem to indicate that some posters thought that May’s deal actually included a customs union when it clearly did not.

If the EU will accept us leaving with such a Union and parliament will vote in favour then surely that must be the way forwards?

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 08:37:16

Gosh Anja that’s a bit harsh! 🙁

If you don’t like one liners (a) why did you post one yourself and (b) ignore them and post on my lengthier comment instead about the CBI ❗️

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 08:37:47

Sorry Anja crossed post!!

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 08:42:33

No it’s not harsh Urmstongran

It seems that some people don’t want to debate but just want to hijack any political thread to repeat ad nauseum their own hatred. If Annie wants to contribute to the debate she is more that welcome. Tossing in her oft repeated manta does not contribute and if I said that I’m sick and tired of hearing that then perhaps you are right I’ve sunk to the same level....

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 08:43:20

Crossed again oops!!!

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 08:47:38

The reason I posted my one-liner was to emphasise the whole point of my OP. The part in bold is where May clearly accepts that a deal acceptable to parliament is possible BUT at the risk of splitting the party.

This is so very wrong.

Anniebach Mon 11-Feb-19 08:49:52

Thank you for your welcome to join the thread Anja but I don’t need an invite or your approval.

lemongrove Mon 11-Feb-19 08:50:01

Anja a lot of MP’s from all Parties are putting themselves and their parties ahead of the country.
I think T May is the least of these.
I think she is honestly trying both to get a deal from the EU and honour the referendum results whilst thinking of Remainers and Leavers.What a job!

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 08:52:36

So lemongrove what do you think of the proposal of a customs union?

etheltbags1 Mon 11-Feb-19 08:54:40

Is anyone else like me ive just burried my head in the sand completely. I dont undetstand what its all about despite reading various papers and websites. I just want it over with. Whatever happens i will still have a mortgage still have my job and my lovely family. I will just have to miss out if prices rise. I have seen the pics on social media of the people with garages full of stockpiled food etc. The retailers must be loving it. Meanwhile im nice and cosy under this heap of sand

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 08:54:41

Any response to my opinion of the CBI though Anja? It was relevant to your OP.

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 08:57:23

Quite understandable ethelbags
I think a lot of the public are sick of the B word now and just want it done and dusted - in whatever form it takes!

MaizieD Mon 11-Feb-19 09:00:03

I think that both the Labour party and the tories are more than likely to split anyway. It's just criminal a shame that they have to commit the country to national suicide in the process.

Anniebach Mon 11-Feb-19 09:00:35

With you etheltbags

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 09:04:03

Yes it is relevant. Hard to say as the CBI have got it wrong in the past, but then they’ve also got it right too. Only their mistakes get the publicity whereas successes slip by unreported.

What you are really asking is ‘would businesses (in general) suffer’ and if so would this affect not just them but us, the public, adversely?

No one knows for sure because it is all new and the only way to find out for sure is when it all goes pear-shaped. There are warning from Carney, who seems to know what he is talking about, and already 30% of businesses are making plans to move their HQ from the U.K. in the case of a no deal.

What do you think?

eazybee Mon 11-Feb-19 09:04:05

The Conservative party that I know is in despair; I don't think Theresa May gives a toss over its fate, because she Knows she is Right. She has one over-riding concern and that is to get her very poor deal, the one she 'negotiated' under the direction of Oliver Robbins in December 2017, through, and she is using every threat, every deception, every evasion she can think of to delay the vote until the last possible moment in the hope of coercing the party, and Parliament, to support her.

muffinthemoo Mon 11-Feb-19 09:05:02

Without any disrespect to ethel, who knows her own personal situation the best when she says she and her family will not be affected, I suspect that the general public are unaware/unprepared for the cascade effects of Brexit in an economic sense.

The mortgage rates wouldn't have to rise by very much for a lot of 'squeezed' families to be seriously in financial trouble. A comparatively very small percentage of jobs can be lost overall, but if concentrated in particular geographic areas, those losses can cause a lot of economic pain.

Of course, the major problem is that many of these unforeseen consequences of what is a massive economic change in circumstances will only become apparent after the fact.

I wish all gransnetters the best and hope the adverse effects are minimal.

petra Mon 11-Feb-19 09:09:53

Urmstongran
For years I've wondered what the purpose of the CBI is?
I love it when people (like you) remember 'stuff'

Riverwalk Mon 11-Feb-19 09:10:55

Yes Urmston the public are sick of Brexit but I disagree about wanting it done and dusted in whatever form.

I think this is what T May is banking on, letting it run to the wire and then we have to settle for a bad deal to maintain her party's unity. We are leaving but should be aiming for as good a deal as possible.

People are mistaken if they think it will be all over come 29 March - I suspect negotiations for various deals with the EU and others will go on for years; a long time for heads to be in the sand.

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 09:14:57

I’m still interested to know what people feel about customs union.

Those who have posted already haven’t said if that would be, in their opinion, acceptable.

What do you think?

MaizieD Mon 11-Feb-19 09:18:51

I think the customs union is acceptable, but then I would. It is, of course, a poor second best to actually remaining in the EU and having our full and meaningful say as we always have done in the past.

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 09:28:03

Cartoon this morning shows TM head as a BAFTA award for ‘the longest running farce’. Love it!

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 09:32:43

And I would hate a customs union MaizieD as it wasn’t what I voted for. It ties us in and prevents us from making our own trade deals without EU approval first! Neither in nor out. We have Theresa the Appeaser to thank (not) for this dog’s dinner of a deal.

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 09:34:22

Thank you maizie for answering that.

Urmstingran? Annie? lemongrove? what do you think?

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 09:37:49

Sorry Anja please see my post above regards my view on a custom union. I replied directly to MaizieD but no matter.

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 09:39:07

Crossed posts again!

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 09:43:28

Your post hadn’t registered when I posted. Thanks for your reply.

I just wonder about the problems of cross border checks, the costs to import and export to our biggest and closest export market. I wouldn’t like to rely on the US or China for any future trade deals.

NfkDumpling Mon 11-Feb-19 09:45:01

I thought the customs union means free movement and no independent trade agreements?

And no one seems to be noticing that the EU negotiators keep reiterating that the only deal is the one on the table. They’re not negotiating any further. At all. Ever. Have I missed them saying they’ll agree to the proposed Corbyn deal?

varian Mon 11-Feb-19 09:45:02

Of course the public are sick of brexit and appalled at the utter waste of billions of taxpayers' money on this attempt to appease the extreme right.

Opinion polls consistently show that most people want the UK to Remain in the EU and have done for the last two years.

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 09:48:20

Haha! Anja we’re not doing so well this morning are we?

Great news just though this morning though about a post Brexit relationship with Switzerland. That should please and reassure jura2

Luckygirl Mon 11-Feb-19 09:48:53

Riverwalk has said exactly what I was going to as soon as I saw the title: the original referendum happened because DC feared the split in his party; and the possibility of the Tories losing an election.

I also agree with the poster who says that initially it was a common market that we agreed to and it is all the massive add-ons that have happened since that are the concern for many and that encouraged the out vote.

MaizieD Mon 11-Feb-19 09:49:02

Have I missed them saying they’ll agree to the proposed Corbyn deal?

I think it's a distinct possibility, Nfk. Labour have had various meetings with the EU over the last 2 years. They are probably proposing something that the EU would like. I think the EU would be very happy with the customs union. Some will see this as a negative, some as a positive.

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 09:51:23

Who on earth trusts the bluddy polls any more varian? They got it so wrong over the referendum!

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 09:56:40

Not free movement with customs union its the single market is a broader agreement that encompasses the free movement of goods, services, capital and people.

Wonder if most realise this and would it make a difference?

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 09:58:47

I’ll return to this later. In the meantime I need to sort out the free movement of bedclothes from the washing machine to the clothes line and via the ironing board back to the beds.

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 10:33:36

I like your SOH Anja it makes me like you better - even though we disagree on our politics!

railman Mon 11-Feb-19 10:49:08

Fascinating collection of posts this morning.

I'm still waiting to see what it is the UK will offer to trade with to Japan, China, India, Brazil, Argentina, Turkey, Russia, the USA, etc.

Off to Iceland now - to see if I can knock up a deal on frozen carrots

Luckygirl Mon 11-Feb-19 10:50:56

You IRON sheets????!!!!!

Nonnie Mon 11-Feb-19 11:04:04

I'm not sure it makes much difference whether TM & JC reach an agreement when the EU have said there won't be any negotiations. I suppose if it were a radical change they might consider it but then what about all those who don't want a customs union, surely they will frustrate it?

It makes me sad when people bury their heads in the sand. It is all very well if you are in a position to pay more for everything or in a secure job but what about all those less fortunate? Don't they matter? Some of us care passionately and this is such an important issue I wish more would take it seriously. Its not about winning or losing, its about having an open mind and listening to those with different opinions. To simply say 'I voted Leave/Remain and I'm sticking to it' is a matter of pride and we all know what that goes before.

4allweknow Mon 11-Feb-19 11:05:22

My view, for what it's worth is that all MPs regardless of party are trying to impose their will on the country. Those who wanted to remain are causing just as many problems as those who wanted to leave. There is no consensus from any party on any proposals offered, it's all what individual MPs want. Very little actual consideration to the referendum result.

counterpoint Mon 11-Feb-19 11:27:49

Making our own trade deals is just another unicorn. Why do we want to? There aren’t many significant countries that we could deal with that don’t already have deals with the EU. And it is being made starkly clear by the Japanese that they expect to give us a worse deal than the EU. Hardly surprising, we have less clout than the largest trading bloc in the world.

Labaik Mon 11-Feb-19 11:42:21

Nonnie; I don't think any job is secure these days. Although, from the way the defence secretary is speaking there might be a lot of jobs going in the armed forces as he seems to think we will become a world power militarily after Brexit...why, even as I speak we've sent our aircraft carrier out to sort out any problems in the Pacific....

Ramblingrose22 Mon 11-Feb-19 11:46:28

counterpoint is absolutely right.

How do we know that the countries we want to do trade deals with even want the products we produce? As for the USA, Trump has made it clear that it's America first

Brexit will lead to less manufacturing here as well.

4allweknow - we are a Parliamentary democracy so MPs get to decide what happens at the end of the day. We don't run our Government by referendum.

No-one knows why people who voted the way that they did in the 2016 referendum so how do the Leavers and the Government know something the rest of us don't?

Theresa May is simply playing for time. She's got to rule out a No Deal to prove she is acting in good faith rather than blackmailing MPs who don't like her deal to vote for it.

Why won't she rule out a No Deal and give business some confidence that she cares about the future of the UK economy?

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 11:47:43

Anja
There is no need to resort to bad language, unless you have a very stunted vocabulary.

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 11:58:07

Out means out. Not cutting the umbilical cord would be folly.
Much more than 50% of our goods come from China.
Just look at the labels or 'Made in ***' stickers on all the items in your home, the boxes they came in.
Does anyone really think that China will pass up that export market?
I imported a bed from the USA. It's a huge mahogany affair. The sticker says Made in China.

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 11:58:13

fullfact.org/europe/how-eu-works-what-customs-union/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA14TjBRD_ARIsAOCmO9Zb8LMZu62Yv6b0uQTHpPs_4A1lFxswVaJ4gVGXyRuz1ByJk8RYRhIaAkfDEALw_wcB

For anyone asconfused as I am about the various terminology this is quite useful!

jura2 Mon 11-Feb-19 12:05:37

Gabriella - you should have said 50% of the poor quality goods come from China. Often on slave Labour.

Currently, EU rules limit the dangers represented by those goods- be they safety of use, materials, chemicals and pollution. Once these checks are gone - what will happen. Same for meat from USA or elsewhere, and all sorts of produce.

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 12:15:14

I do not pretend to fully understand all the details of leaving the EU.
What I do know is that it was a bloody stupid idea not to have thrashed all this out at home & cross-party BEFORE deciding to trigger Article 50. UK could then have gone to the negotiating table with some confidence and credibility!
Too important a decision, which will impact on us all and for future generations, without having any clear idea what a) we all really wanted & b) what we could realistically expect.
It is a national matter not party politics. Idiots!

Nonnie Mon 11-Feb-19 12:19:22

Labaik Ethel seems to think she does . Whatever happens i will still have a mortgage still have my job and my lovely family.

I think there are some civil servants who think their jobs are safe, whoever agreed the cladding at Grenfell Tower appears not to have lost their job, or if they have I haven't hear it. Then there is whoever gave the freight contract to Seabourne without doing due diligence. If their jobs are secure I imagine the jobs of the ones who have negotiated with the EU civil servants are also secure.

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 12:21:48

jura2
Yes, there is a lot of tat I agree but so often, when we buy things, we don't look at the labels to see where they're made.
Much of our clothing, from both ends of the market, is made in Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and China and many items such as lampshades and bases, some furniture, mirrors, plant-pots electrical goods etc...are made in China too.
I wonder where Boden, beloved clothier of GNers, have their clothes manufactured.

jura2 Mon 11-Feb-19 12:25:35

Urmstongran. 'Great news just though this morning though about a post Brexit relationship with Switzerland. That should please and reassure jura2'

Thanks - I have talked about this agreement on another thread. Sadly, it has not been ratified and signed, and the right in the shape of the SDP/UDC party- are doing everything they can to stop it. So we are defo not out of the woods yet. I wish...

And as an aside, Luckygirl - yes I do (iron sheet). Nothing better than good quality cotton sheets freshly ironed- a real luxury smile x

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 12:28:26

jura2

Re Boden.
Please see screenshot.

jura2 Mon 11-Feb-19 12:35:32

Gabriella- what I was trying to say is that currently EU rules ensure that wherever goods are made, or produce/meat produced- they have to follow EU regulations and standards, re safety, chemicals, pollutants, etc, etc.

Which is not at all guaranteed after Brexit. Especially if we have to go with begging bowl to these countries for trade agreements. Trump has made that very clear. He wants us to drop our EU based requirements on animal welfare, pollutants and chemicals in produce we buy, be they meat, cereal or other- give up working rights re wages, conditions, hours, holidays, maternity, etc, etc.

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 12:48:43

That's only Trump. How much of our merchandise is bought from America? Almost zero.
We can negotiate on our own terms with China and those countries not wedded to or inside the EU.
More countries will follow when we leave, mark my words.

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 12:52:14

When you say "we" don't look at the labels do you really mean "many/some people don't look at the labels" wink

counterpoint Mon 11-Feb-19 12:52:20

We need more exports, not mor imports. Neither the EU nor the UK is likely to make a trade deal with protectionist China any time soon. And Germany exports five times as much as we do to China, so it’s unlikely that being in the EU is stopping us. Face facts.

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 12:56:35

...and every morning when you put on a pair of M&S knickers, remember, that in a sweat shop in Sri Lanka or Taiwan, some downtrodden employee is working all the hours heaven sends, for peanuts.
That is what jura2 would have us believe. It's tat. Even M&S tat. hmm

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 13:00:35

jura2 just watched Liam Fox & his Swiss counterpart signing the trade deal. Excellent!
Many more to come hopefully.
No Deal is looking more and more likely on 29th of next month - eek! So close now - Remainers cannot coalesce around what proposal ought to stop it.

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 13:01:58

Will we have greater negotiating power as an small independent country or as part of a much bigger group with more to offer? I thought there was something abut economies of scale? But I am not a economic expert ...

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 13:02:16

PECS
Evidently not you.
'We' was used loosely as most people don't look at the place of manufacture when buying and those that do, often still choose to purchase, as any other shop will most likely have similar items made in the same places.

jura2 Mon 11-Feb-19 13:02:50

I do remember the days when M&S stuff was all made in Leicester. The seconds shop was brilliant. But this is another story. it is not the EU that closed the textile industry- it was the need/wish or greed for low prices. And the jobs did not go to the EU either.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 11-Feb-19 13:07:27

Why do people assume that after 29/3 the UK standards will automatically be lower?

I would be happy for the UK to emerge like a phoenix and be a beacon for finance and services.

We have got a manufacturing industry in the UK, but so many are only to keen to talk the UK down adinfinitim.

There is nothing wrong with Europe but the EU us corrupt, why when so many of you decry that the H of C’s is corrupt and a jobs for the boys network are you happy to contribute to the EU?

EllanVannin Mon 11-Feb-19 13:09:51

This Brexit is an utter disgrace which flies in the face of the good that the late Margaret Thatcher achieved by bringing in foreign investors. The economy was at its best because of the low interest charged for foreign trade/businesses.
Foreign trade was encouraged for the good of the country and its inhabitants.
Now, we're pushing them all away ?? Why ?

We'll never see its like again since the demise of MT. We're going further and further down the mire without a strong leader.

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 13:12:00

Praise the Lord!

Hazy52 Mon 11-Feb-19 13:14:45

I wish it could all be settled soon. Right from the start there should have been a cross party committee set up to thrash out what was needed from the EU before negotiations were started. Too many personal feelings are getting in the way rather than going for what the public voted for.

I voted to leave on the information given at the time and remembering my mother being dead against joining in the first place when I didn't have a vote. Husband voted remain so we cancelled each other out. Looking at how the EU is now treating the UK I would not change my mind. However, I am being made to feel responsible by son who lives in Europe. He is now going down the route of claiming Irish citizenship through his late paternal Irish grandmother to stop any problems moving around Europe with a UK passport. He has stated he will not be able to visit UK after March in case he can't go back (since then the country he is in have stated they are going to bring in a law for UK citizens to still be able to reside there). I have had to get six birth, marriage and death certificates and husband's passport notarized just to accompany the form which have cost nearly £100. After getting three certificates and being told he needed more I did raise the subject of the cost having not budgeted for it and being so close to Christmas and he said to just let him know the total and he would reimburse. Some three weeks later no sign of funds but he is not short of money, I am being made to suffer. He has said that just applying is going to cost €1000 and I am feeling the blame rightly or wrongly for an expense that is not needed in his mind.

Labaik Mon 11-Feb-19 13:16:04

But it just said on the news that the trade deal with Switzerland is basically the same one that we have via the EU. So what have we gained?

GabriellaG54 Mon 11-Feb-19 13:18:47

Hazy52
More fool you. He's an adult. Make him do his own dirty work.

Luckygirl Mon 11-Feb-19 13:29:42

I agree that giving a date for triggering article 50 was a major tactical error on the part of TM. I do not know what she was playing at.

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 13:34:57

Here’s what we have gained by the new trade deal Labaik

The government has signed a trade deal with Switzerland, heralded as the most significant such agreement in the run-up to Brexit.

The deal, known as a trade continuity agreement, will guarantee future trading terms between the two countries once the UK has left the EU.

It was signed, in the Swiss city of Bern, by International Trade Secretary Liam Fox and the Swiss federal councillor Guy Parmelin.

The agreement is designed to remove the threat of additional tariffs in trade between the two countries and to also to lift the possibility of additional duties on "the vast majority of goods".

The government says that "trading on these preferential terms", as opposed to sticking to the terms of the World Trade Organisation, "will deliver significant savings and help to safeguard British jobs".

It is claimed that the deal will, for instance, avoid around £8m of tariffs being added to the price of cars exported from the UK to Switzerland, while British consumers will benefit from lowers prices on Swiss goods, "such as clocks, watches and pharmaceutical products".

The trade between the two countries is reckoned to be worth more than £32bn per year, making this the biggest agreement signed since the UK voted to leave the European Union.

And that’s just the start.
I’m optimistic.
🙂

Nanny41 Mon 11-Feb-19 13:40:01

Another one here sick of the B word, and the total confusion, no explanations, no feeling of a secure future, it seems to be a complete mess.
I would love to sound more positive.

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 13:43:30

Swiss are known for sitting on fences and popping out when it suits them! Cuckoo!

jura2 Mon 11-Feb-19 13:47:04

PEC - ahahahaha glad you enjoyed that little joke. As for Cuckoos, surely you know they come from the Black Forest in Southern Germany. Must say I have never seen a cuckoo sitting on a fence either - but there you go.

Don't you just love streotypes, hey.

Nonnie Mon 11-Feb-19 13:47:22

PECS Will we have greater negotiating power as an small independent country or as part of a much bigger group with more to offer? I thought there was something abut economies of scale? But I am not a economic expert ... Please stop talking common sense, you are beginning to sound like someone who knows what they are talking about and is using logic. You will soon be accused of 'project fear'. Time to duck.

GG I think its because much of the protection we have has come from EU laws and once they are gone it seems likely that things will go downhill. If you believe there is corruption in the EU then surely the best way to deal with it is to be inside rather than having to follow EU rules and have no say in how it is run?

Hazy I would be interested to know what you mean by how the EU is treating us. What would you do differently if we were in the EU and another country planned to leave?

Urmston does that mean we haven't gained anything? I thought we were promised better deals after leaving the EU.

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 14:09:51

Semantics Nonnie it’s a good deal.
Hopefully the beginning of many more - better or ‘as good as’.
Let’s not be churlish. There would be howls of derision if this first struck trade deal had been regarded as ‘less than’.
Upwards & onwards!

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 14:10:49

GG sorry to,disappoint but I have a wide and varied vocabulary and nothing is off the agenda. If I think a ‘swear’ word is called for and it doesn’t meet with your approval just put your fingers in your ears and clutch your pearls....if physically possible.

Personally I’m with Dame Judy

GrannyGravy13 Mon 11-Feb-19 14:11:19

Nonnie have you been watching “Inside the EU the last 10 years”?

They have continually ignored and sometimes humiliated the UK. Why would you want that for your Country?

merlotgran Mon 11-Feb-19 14:11:58

I've never seen a cuckoo sitting on a fence either but I've always been puzzled about their desire to nest in clocks.

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 14:12:21

Anyway moving forward did anyone say they would be happy with a Customs Union ...which is NOT the same as the Single Market and its commitment to free movement of labour?

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 14:12:48

merlot 🤣

merlotgran Mon 11-Feb-19 14:15:08

Inside the EU is a very informative programme. Part 3 is tonight.

If ever I questioned my decision to vote Leave, having seen it I'm now more than sure my reasoning was correct.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 11-Feb-19 14:15:26

Anja I have not said anything about your language?

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 14:16:35

Funny..it confirmed my remain convictions! polarised forever due to bloody idiot Cameron!

onneker Mon 11-Feb-19 14:22:30

The issue that most concerns me is climate change. The topic is shamefully neglected on Gransnet. I read all the posts by Lemongrove, Day 6 etc (the articulate and intelligent Leavers )to see what they think we will be doing after Brexit but find nothing. At least the EU seems to get climate change although some of its policies eg the introduction of LED lightbulbs are castigated by the popular press as if the EU was condemning us to sit in the dark rather than try to save the planet. Michael Gove is (surprisingly) doing quite well but it is said that he will be moved after Brexit. Do we really fancy Owen (the badgers moved the goal posts) Patterson or Chris (failing) Grayling in charge of all matters to do with climate change? Aren't we better off in a bloc to tackle this burning (literally) issue together?

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 14:25:43

Sorry GG13 ‘Twas another to whom I refer!

Urmstongran Mon 11-Feb-19 14:27:29

If you start another thread on this topic onneker you may well find you get a lot more response than posting on this one..

GrannyGravy13 Mon 11-Feb-19 14:29:13

Anja 👍

PECS Mon 11-Feb-19 14:29:25

just saying gringringrin

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 14:32:28

I do agree that Gove (surprisingly) has made a good job at environment. Surely Owen Patterson has held this role previously and made a serious cock-up of it?

Apologies to the other GG if my language again offend. Perhaps I ought to have said balls-up?

lemongrove Mon 11-Feb-19 14:35:38

onneker I think we will be putting in place various policies on climate change once The Brexit withdrawal deal is over and done with.Trade talks will go on of course, but can’t see any reason why the UK cannot do all we would have done had we stayed in the EU and in fact, we could go even further than EU countries are doing, why not, it would be our choice.
Gove is keen on all sorts of green policies, but no doubt others are too.As a country we are already not too bad where the environment is concerned, electric cars can’t be all that far off, diesel cars should be phased out, just for starters.
Brexit has taken centre stage for two years but that should change soon.

jura2 Mon 11-Feb-19 14:53:39

Love it PECS - can't believe you took time to find one, lol.

oh Lemon, where to start ...

MaizieD Mon 11-Feb-19 15:26:02

Anyway moving forward did anyone say they would be happy with a Customs Union ...

I did, Anja

And added the rider that it would be far better to stay in the EU as we would have a say over everything.

As for the claim that the EU didn't let the UK get its own way, can I remind you all that when the Chinese were flooding Europe with cheap steel and threatening our steel industry, it was the UK which objected to the EU's anti-dumping measures and so blocked them. The NE suffered with the resultant closure of the steel works on Teeside.

Anja Mon 11-Feb-19 15:36:13

Sorry Maizie I think I did acknowledge your post. I should have asked if anyone new had replied.

lemongrove Mon 11-Feb-19 15:40:38

jura rather wish that you wouldn’t start ( at all) as your every post is filled with gloom and doom and armageddon scenarios.
There is no reason at all that the UK should fall behind in any green issues for the future, and the fact that you think it will ( presumably) is to do with every negative thought and message you can cram into all threads to do with Brexit.

Nonnie Mon 11-Feb-19 15:52:51

Urmston I disagree that it is semantics, it is not the better deal we were promised. You are however right that there would have been howls of derision if it had been worse.

No GG I haven't. Why did you suggest I wanted that? I find that people who twist what others say are doing themselves a disservice and very few people are taken in by it. sad