Younger people’s views beyond March 2019.

The Telegraph writer, BTW, was Andrew Lilco. A leading Brexiter

Retired, the article in The Telegraph to which you give a link is an opinion article written in 2014. The scenario pictured by the author and the dates he suggested for the events he depicts are his personal view of the future as he saw it at the time. They are not facts and should not be repeated as such. For example, he foresees Europe obliging member countries to join the euro but this has not happened. The Lisbon Treaty was ratified in 2009 and does not include any plans for changes in the 2020s. The Telegraph writer believed (in 2014) that these changes would take place in the 2020s. This is the Leavers equivalent of Project Fear. It is important to listen to ideas about the future - in the case of Brexit, both Remainer and Leaver - so that we can form our own ideas but we need to distinguish opinions from facts.

What they said:

“If we come out, we are out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to go back and say we’ve reconsidered, or let’s have another referendum. If we vote to stay out, then we are out, and we will have to get on with it.”

— John Major, speaking on the Andrew Marr show in December 2015

“I will forgive no-one who does not accept the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is by 1% or 20%.”

— Paddy Ashdown, speaking as votes were being counted for the referendum (and when Remain were projected to win)

Seems that 16 year olds are considered unfit to vote because they are too shallow, too ill- informed, lack life experience, can’t be bothered to do their research, etc....

A bit unfair when you consider that the other age groups are allowed to vote whilst knowing bugger all about anything.

Thank you for finding that, MaizieD. I fear another referendum would be full of lies again.

Let children be children, stop trying to force them to be older than their years. There are a lot more years to come than what is left behind...16 year olds may be intelligent enough to express opinions but I don’t think the future of the country should be left to them..let them learn by experiencing living and that cannot be put on young shoulders.

OK, Retired, try this:

tompride.wordpress.com/2018/12/15/leavers-already-campaigning-to-win-second-referendum-on-social-media-with-even-worse-lies-than-before/

When I was 16 my ideas and experience were so limited and immature naturally. I would have been easily influenced. As I grew into adulthood and then parenthood, I drew my own conclusions about who I wanted to vote for from experience always voting with the future in mind. I believe all parents and grandparents do have an investment in the future - the wellbeing of their children and grandchildren.

And all those dates, Retired? Are they in the Lisbon Treaty?

And, in case you hadn't noticed, the 'economic and monetary union has happened, but it doesn't include all the member states and many of them don't look at all likely to do it at all. And Cameron had obtained agreement that we should never have to join the euro; to be written into treaty.

Next?

Gaggi

"I think basing someone's right to vote on their financial /work/housing status would be very wrong and retrograde. and only too representative of the current materialistic climate. Years ago many people lived in council houses and never owned their own, should they have been prevented from voting? "

Sorry have I missed something?

Has this been mentioned?

I think basing someone's right to vote on their financial /work/housing status would be very wrong and retrograde. and only too representative of the current materialistic climate. Years ago many people lived in council houses and never owned their own, should they have been prevented from voting? Young people are the ones who are going to have to deal with this incredible shambles long after most of us are gone. I want better for my family and the community at large..
Differing ages for marriage, voting etc are confusing. The age of criminal responsibility is 10!

If the vote was given to 16 year olds, many would just vote the way their parents tell them. Some have very little experience of “real life” therefore I would be against giving them a vote. I know many will disagree with me but everyone is allowed to have an opinion.
As far as I am concerned we have already had our vote on Brexit, so why another referendum? It is an insult to try to overrule it on the basis that people didn’t know what they were voting for! The information was there if you wanted to find it.
MPs are in power to represent their constituents, therefore they should vote in Parliament the way their Constituency voted. Another insult if they say they know better than the people they represent.
For what it’s worth, I voted Remain in the referendum, however I accepted the DEMOCRATIC will of the British people in wishing to leave. If there was another vote I would therefore vote leave, both because I believe in democracy and, possibly more importantly, I think there has been far to much damage done now between the EU and the UK for us to stay in the EU.

Well for starters , Maizie D I have found from the link you posted the following.

page 12 The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.

page 62 The Council, on a proposal from the Commission, shall adopt measures on fixing prices, levies, aid and quantitative limitations and on the fixing and allocation of fishing opportunities.";

I always thought that they should have let the 16 year old to vote in the Brexit referendum, however, even though I voted Remain, I feel we should not have another referendum because the government has made a mess of the deal. How do you know that this has been done on purpose, so that they can get what they want. It would not be democratic to have another referendum. I do think we should have a say on the deal though.
Going back to lowering the age, a lot of young people couldn’t even be bothered to vote for the last one.

Are you going to test us on it later MaizieD?

I'd better get started

starbird says to me

Are you sure your info on the Lisbon Treaty is correct? Can you give a source?

As I haven't given any information at all about the Lisbon Treaty I'm not sure why I am being asked this. On the other hand, the information that was posted here from Facebook is complete and utter nonsense.

Here is the Lisbon Treaty text. Perhaps Retired65 would like to point out exactly where all the things in the facebook list are written,

www.eutruth.org.uk/lisbontreaty.pdf

And here is a series of fact sheets on the Lisbon treaty for those of you who might not want to wade through the 200+ pages of the Treaty itself

www.robert-schuman.eu/en/understanding-the-lisbon-treaty

This thread was asking if 16 year old children should have the right to vote ' IF ' there was a 2nd Referendum / Peoples Vote, call it which you like but they are the same thing.

Why is the question only asking if 16 year olds should vote in another Referendum ?

The faux argument put forward of the EU Referendum being ' their ' future , ' theirs.' to decide is only worth it's weight in salt if the argument extends to General Elections too.

It is either thought at 16 children are so wise they understand what they are voting for whether it be, Leave/Remain in the EU, understand the Political Nuance of the different parties and where they stand on subjects such as Euthanasia, Taxation, Employment, Defence, Pensions all the subjects we as voters reflect on to decide which Political Party we as individuals feel are closer to our thoughts because we too also have to make decisions as to ' Our ' futures.

Children of 16 years are either intelligent, worldly enough to vote for what is their future or not!

Personally I am happy to show my colours and say NO but I don't buy into the argument the EU Referendum should or could be a separate entity if the argument is solely based on voting because it is ' Their ' future.

Fearless, I am sorry what false information? Explain please? Thank you.

Ramblingrose22: References given in post further back plus
see www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10935617/After-2020-all-EU-members-will-have-to-adopt-the-euro.html

Tooyoungtobe good post.

Brilliant posts cakebaker. ?? I totally agree with you.

Tooyoungtobe ???

There is no way my kids would have been ready to make informed decisions at 16 (my dd not even at 18). Yes they have a wealth of knowledge at their fingertips (Google etc ) but at this age are mainly interested in themselves and their lives and live for the moment rather than the future. I think once my eldest had finished university he was better equipped for reasoned argument and similarly my youngest at 21 more interested and able to see and reason all sides (both voted, but differently on Brexit! ) As for it affecting youngsters more than the older generation yes but I have no intentions of going anywhere for at least another 20 years so it will affect me and many others especially as people are living longer. I have worked with the 13 -18 age group and in all honesty the majority were not either interested, knowledgeable enough to vote, also when recruiting find many seem to be lacking in general life skills or common sense imo.They do have to stay in education until 18 now which does not suit all but personally I feel 18 is young enough.

Agree with Fearless. Retired65 shouldn't believe everything they read on Facebook (FB)!

If anyone on FB claims the Treaty of Lisbon requires us to go on to the Euro and be in the Schengen area where are the references to prove it?

When I am given the references and looked them up myself, then I might believe these claims.

minniemouse spot on!
All this denying of wanting a second vote ( because they didn’t like the results of the first one) is hard to swallow.
I would respect them more if they all came out and said ‘ yes, we hated the result and are doing our damn best to reverse it’......at least it would be honest.