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Is it fair?

(36 Posts)
Tillybelle Thu 21-Feb-19 12:48:33

Anna Soubry has left the Conservative Party. She has been fighting against Brexit for some time. Whereas many would say she is brave and many would agree with her, she remains MP for Broxtowe, serving Constituents who voted for her as a Tory and who voted to Leave the EU. She is working against her Constituents, not serving those who put her in Parliament. Yet she is still there. Is this fair?

GrannyGravy13 Thu 21-Feb-19 12:57:08

I have always been of the opinion that our MPs represented their constituents and reflected their views in parliament, but since the 2016 referendum it seems to be every man/woman is in the H of C for themselves.

Smileless2012 Thu 21-Feb-19 12:57:44

No it isn't fair. She should stand for re election.

Anniebach Thu 21-Feb-19 13:01:03

Does a MP have a duty only to those who vote for her/him or for their constituency ?

Urmstongran Thu 21-Feb-19 13:07:53

Well the Tory manifesto was to get us out of the EU and MP’s were elected on that promise. AS is doing everything in her power (along with others) to thwart Brexit.

Ah well, hopefully not long now - 36 days till we’re OUT.
And at either a by election or a GE she’ll be toast!

GillT57 Thu 21-Feb-19 13:11:56

Exactly right Annieb. My bloody MP is a staunch brexiteer, not typical of his constituents, perhaps we should demand that he stands for re-election? By definition, no MP is ever going to represent every wish of everyone of their constituents. This way it frees them up to say what they think, not just trot out the party line as dictated by the whips. It was interesting that Sarah Wollaston cited Boris's vulgar, unprofessional comment of 'F* business' as one of her reasons for quiting.

muffinthemoo Thu 21-Feb-19 13:19:34

We have a system of representative democracy, not direct democracy. This sort of thing happens occasionally, and the systemic remedy is to kick out the MP at the next election.

There has always been an argument about whether there should be a mechanism allowing recall elections for MPs, but it's never been that popular an idea.

lemongrove Thu 21-Feb-19 13:23:01

Of course not Gill ! Your MP has not left his own Party, and regardless of his own views ( he happens to support Brexit) his Party supports it, and were elected as supporting it in the last GE, whether Labour or Conservative.

Yes Tilly I think all who leave to stand as ‘Indies’ should face a by-election.

eazybee Thu 21-Feb-19 14:00:18

Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston all voted to hold the Referendum, to trigger Article 50 and to support the EU Withdrawal Bill. They have since been campaigning strenuously to overturn the result of the Referendum.
The ERG is defending the Referendum result and the 2017 manifesto, on which all three campaigned.
Parliament contracted out its sovereignty to the electorate, via the Referendum, on whether or not to leave the EU, therefore MPs have a duty to honour that result.
These three should resign their seats and stand for re-election as Independents.
The Labour MPs have apparently resigned for different reasons, and in a rather more dignified manner, but perhaps they should also stand as Independents.

From a purely personal view, the thought of local elections, yet alone a General Election, fills me with dread.
Two political parties, with two weak leaders, neither of whom will go, and a bunch of dissidents without a common aim.

POGS Thu 21-Feb-19 14:31:28


Since the 2017 General Election there are '. 18 ' MP's sitting as INDEPENDENT MP's from the LABOUR/ CONSERVATIVE / LIB DEM Parties. They All won their seats on their respective Party ticket but have since winning either ''Resigned from the Whip or Party' meaning they no longer have to follow the party line and shifted to being INDEPENDENT MP's.

This is their decision to make and I think it is wrong and Parliamentary Procedure should change. The fact there are ''18.' at present and possibly more to come I hope will give this some degree of thought.

Jalima1108 Thu 21-Feb-19 14:32:28

Interesting post eazybee - particularly the first paragraph.

POGS Thu 21-Feb-19 14:33:10


' The Labour MPs have apparently resigned for different reasons, and in a rather more dignified manner, but perhaps they should also stand as Independents.'

They are now Independent MP's.

Jalima1108 Thu 21-Feb-19 14:37:00

A more dignified manner?

humptydumpty Thu 21-Feb-19 14:38:05

Sorry to re-visit this but is it not the case that the referendum was 'advisory'?

PECS Thu 21-Feb-19 14:43:53

If an MP votes against their part whip so be it, they may have a vote of conscience or be taking account of something that affects their constituents more than the nation as a whole.
If they leave the political party on whose manifesto they were elected on then it is a tougher decision.

Parliamentary rules do not say they must resign the seat.

Unfortunately the debacle over membership of the EU is dominating all news and parliamentary activity. All sorts of bill are slipping in , under the radar and other important issues ignored.

Changing the current parliamentary codes would seem way down on the agenda!

POGS Thu 21-Feb-19 14:48:52


' If an MP votes against their part whip so be it, they may have a vote of conscience or be taking account of something that affects their constituents more than the nation as a whole.'

It is not about voting against the Whip! That is not the issue at all.!

Some of the ' 18 ' ' RESIGNED the Whip ' meaning they are now Independent MP' s.

PECS Thu 21-Feb-19 15:01:49

POGS thought you were not playing with me to day!

My 2nd sentence

" If they leave the political party on whose manifesto they were elected on then it is a tougher decision."

says what you just said confused

varian Thu 21-Feb-19 15:42:35

You are correct humptydumpty the EU referendum was advisary, otherwise the status quo would have had to be protected by a supermajority as was the case in the first Scottish devolution referendum where "yes" won but could not be enacted because the "yes" vote was not supported by 40% of the electorate.

It is true that David Cameron said he would act on the EU referendum result, but he had absolutely no right to do so. It is also important that under our constitution, no parliament can commit a future parliament to anything and our present parliament is not legally bound to follow through.

The quitters often point to the fact that the 2017 parliament contains a majority of Tory and Labour MPs whose party manifestos proposed "delivering brexit". This is a spurious argument. Parties never follow through with all sections of their manifestos. Voters under our FPTP system very often only have the choice of these two parties and will vote on the basis of "lesser of two evils" which does not mean endorsing every item in a manifesto.

We also now know that the referendum result was influenced by foreign interference, illegal spending and outright lies, and should be declared null and void if the Electoral Commission had any teeth.

All the evidence is that, for the last eighteen months or more, most voters, if asked would chose to remain in the EU. The much vaunted "will of the people" has changed.

In spite of all that this government has followed through and negotiated a deal for leaving the EU. That deal might be approved by parliament, but it should only be legitimised if the people are allowed to have a Final Say - a choice between the deal and remaining in the EU.

Urmstongran Thu 21-Feb-19 16:12:02

If it was only ‘advisory’ why is the government hell bent on doing it then? If they didn’t have to do it you’d think legal brains such as Geoffrey Cox and others would have told then ‘no’ from the outset.
Why is it happening then? Does anybody know?

Day6 Thu 21-Feb-19 16:16:24

Good post eazybee

Day6 Thu 21-Feb-19 16:21:21

All the evidence is that, for the last eighteen months or more, most voters, if asked would chose to remain in the EU. The much vaunted "will of the people" has changed

A) you have to ask who is obtaining and collating that evidence


B) that statement flies in the face of local feeling round here. Leavers dislike Brussels more and more as negotiators like Tusk insult us and remain intransigent regarding the backstop and the way they can ties us to the EU indefinitely.

The Remain attitude certainly among the people I know/associate with, now tends to be "I have accepted it. Just get on with it!"

varian Thu 21-Feb-19 16:46:49

"What UK Thinks" shows results of more than fifty polls carried out by reputable polling companies.

Tillybelle Thu 21-Feb-19 18:01:07

eazybee. Thank you!
You express everything I think and feel and say it so much better than I ever could.

I think people in Broxtowe have a right to feel used. Anna Soubry has not even lived in Nottinghamshire let alone in the Constituency of Broxtowe as she promised she would and made such a big issue about when standing for election here the first time. She bought a place in Bramcote so the address was on the election paper in time, lived there a short while then moved to Leicestershire and her big house with her husband. The second sudden election did not give her time to move back to Broxtowe and pretend to be one of us, so she had to reveal that, despite saying MPs should live in their Constituency, she didn't even live in the same County, let alone the constituency. She has abused local people by shouting at them at length and humiliating them but will straight away cry "law suite" if anyone complains about her screaming at them. There was strong speculation that Broxtowe was being used as a stepping stone to Ken Clark's Rushcliffe constituency just over the river Trent, expecting him to retire. That wise man did not oblige and then Cameron, having caused the chaos, cowardly stepped down to dump the job into the lap of Theresa May to bravely carve out whatever Brexit means. (Apparently it means not mentioning anything to do with Defence because apparently the EU Defence Union is to remain. Remain without the British public having any knowledge about it or any public discussions on the matter. Thus EU Defence Union remaining = Brexit without exit.)
The ascendancy of Theresa May threw Anna's ambitions into desperation and soon, as we saw, she began to flounder.
Having voted to trigger Article 50, she then starts to campaign to stop Brexit. Thus she is showing no loyalty whatsoever to the Leader of her Party or support to the woman who was landed with the worst parliamentary job in the west, let alone her Constituents whom she led to beleive she would support.

Shinyredcar Thu 21-Feb-19 18:12:43

An MP is voted for as an individual person whom you wish to represent you.

For some years, candidates have joined political parties and show this on the ballot paper if they want to use the Party's workers and finance for their campaign. It is shorthand for the way they think. It is not binding them to anything so far as the voters are concerned.

Their party may take a different view and de-select them for the next election if they change or leave the party, but they are still the individual person who stood for election and was voted in.

There used to be lots of Independents, many of them well-respected long-serving MPs. Because we now have so many career politicians the fashion has changed.

In the Euro Elections no Independent candidate could campaign in the huge constituencies we have, so we are stuck with a Party Lists voting system and we couldn't vote for an individual if we wanted to. Not very democratic.

Urmstongran Thu 21-Feb-19 18:20:51

Oh god Tillybelle she’s far worse than I thought! Thank you for your post. The woman’s shameless!