Are those condeming the Labour Party confusing Anti Zionism with Anti Semetism

Coming back with ‘islamophobia is rife in the Tory party’
Seems an excuse for anti semetism in the Labour Party

Great post PECS, exactly how I feel.
Agreed, and anecdotal- Annie- but Islamophobia is rife in many people who vote Tory or are Tory members (and whom I know personally) - and also in the Tory read Press.

And I also know many who are pro Israel and will deny that what is happening in Gaza is an abomination and totally inhumane.

Never come across or heard of Islamaphobia in the Labour Party.

Can I say this without it sounding " tit for tat" ?
I have voted Labour all my voting life because of all their other good policies & despite their foreign policy history of not challenging Israel as it decimated Palestine.

There is no place for anti - semitism. It must be flushed out of any political party, including Labour, & also Islamaphobia and sexism and other forms of discrimination & hate crimes. I do not see one as worse than another. They are all despicable.

Chris Williamson in the news this morning , a recording of him at a Momentum meeting was released by the Yorkshire Post,

I learned yesterday he has booked a room in Parliament to show the latest Jackie Walker film, his guests are JVL.

Jackie Walker is suspended by the Party because of anti semetic statements.

She was the deputy of Momentum who was secretly film at a Momentum training day, answering the question

What is anti semetism,

janipat, your post echoes what my Jewish friends say. They’re all Labour voters and have been through generations but now feel disenfranchised. So do many other Labour voters -

I'm not a jewess but do have jewish ancestry. I condemn much of what Israel does, but am still of the opinion that too many in the LP membership are inherently anti-Semitic, who cloak their prejudice in anti-zionist clothing. I really don't think Corbyn could back the jewish perspective no matter what, and that is sad. I really can't vote labour while he is the leader which leaves me with so many others floundering as to where to cast our votes.

anniebach A poster pointed out that you never answered my question of a few days ago as to what you yourself would describe as "anti semitic".

Belatedly, you have now responded: "racism is racism".

It is obviously much easier to throw one or two line insults and allegations at other people than to actually make sensible comments. I really don't think calling everyone who disagrees with you "Corbynites United" - particularly when some of those people have expressed their disapproval of Corbyn - is a rational response.

I agree with what Emily Thornberry said.

Will the elections in Israel ( in April) bring any hope that things may change for the better and the hardliners may be outnumbered by those who want to work towards a peaceful settlement?

Others post, I rant ?

Umm.. my family's recent history is factual evidence of what Zionist policies do.

I wish people would read what I actually post about anti Semitism. I am not a denier that it exists in LP or anywhere else. But I do believe that some unfounded accusations and exaggerations have been made & / or manipulated to discredit JC. In politics dirty things happen. JCs support for Palestine was a gift to those political enemies from outside and within LP who want him out. I do not think he is a good leader but I do not believe he is a racist of any kind. Despite Annies repeated rants!

And equally enemies of JC do not use his support for Palestine to imply he is anti -semetic.

Pogs, agreed, totally.

Thanks for posting that part of Thornberry’s speech POGS surely there is nothing to disagree with there at all by anybody !

PECS

" If people are not open to reflection or in considering another point of view..or even just acknowledging it might be a possibility .. these threads just bat back and forth!"
---

Amen to that.

However a point of view is simply that. Factual evidence is another thing altogether and there is a determined few who refuse to consider the factual evidence.

jura
Re your point :-

' Her conclusion is that the systematic attack of anyone who dares criticise what is happening to the Palestinians as antisemitic - is a clear STRATEGY."
--

I answered that point but I remembered somebody else shared my opinion. She is possibly one of my least favourite politicians with a flare for saying one thing one minute and another the next minute but EMILY THORNBERRY said this at the Labour Conference in Liverpool and it came into my mind thinking of your post. She said this ( extracts ):-

“Let me speak to you from the depths of my heart and my soul and say something I never thought I’d have to say in my lifetime as a Labour member and activist, and it is simply this - that if we want to root out fascism and racism and hatred from our world, and from our country, then we must start - we must start - with rooting it out of our own party.

“But I know as well, and we must all acknowledge, that there are sickening individuals on the fringes of our movement, who use our legitimate support for Palestine as a cloak and a cover for their despicable hatred of Jewish people, and their desire to see Israel destroyed.

“Those people stand for everything that we have always stood against and they must be kicked out of our party the same way Oswald Mosley was kicked out of Liverpool.”

She was saying ' do not ' use support for Palestinians as a cloak for antisemitism.

absolutelyPecs history and culture is fine,propgataing hatred against others isn't

POGS I have put forward a different perspective about the focus on Anti Semitism within LP on more than one occasion. However it has been ignored and the anti Corbyn memes have been repeated ad infinitum.
If people are not open to reflection or in considering another point of view..or even just acknowledging it might be a possibility .. these threads just bat back and forth!

So on the one hand we have Corbyn (and I am NO Corbynite) not condemning a mural... and then there is this

''A senior Israeli rabbi says Tel Aviv should execute Palestinians instead of arresting them and “leave no one alive” in order to establish safety in the occupied Palestinian territories, Palestinian media report.

“Israeli army has to stop arresting Palestinians,” Shmuel Eliyahu said in a message posted on his Facebook page on Tuesday, adding, “but, it must execute them and leave no one alive6,” Palestine News Network reported.

As chief rabbi of the city of Safed, Eliyahu is known for his racist behavior and remarks about Arabs and Muslims. He had earlier urged the Israeli regime to take “revenge” against Arabs in order to restore what he called Israel’s deterrence.

He also described Palestinians as the enemy of Israel and claimed that they “must be destroyed and crushed in order to end violence.”

“If they don’t stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand. And if they do not stop after 1,000, then we must kill 10,000. If they still don’t stop we must kill 100,000, even a million,”1 the Jerusalem Post quoted him as saying in 2007.
'
No comparison is there?

paddyann

Believing the Israeli government is wrong to illegally expand occupied territories is not being antisemitic is it? It is stating a fact or opinion

Posters keep repeating the fact not one poster has said anything other.

Do you have an opinion as to why antisemitism, intimidation and harassment is so widely reported by Labour MP'/Councillors over the past 3 years ' prior to ' the EU Referendum.?





P

Indeed how I read paddyanns's comments- and totally agree.

No * Annie* paddyann is not talking about learning cultural history and political history. Of course that is not wrong.
She is, I think, referring to the active propaganda that Israeli policies allow that dehumanise the Palestinian people. When government ministers talk openly about murdering people & making hatred of a cultural group mainstream..that is indoctrination.

paddyann

Indoctrination? Do you not know the history of the Scots ? yes have their own country but did you never learn of the history of your kin? . indoctrination?

I know the history of the Welsh, indoctrination?

The Irish , indoctrination?

It is natural to learn the history of our own race

I meant MY faith in the human race.I've always believed there are far more good people in the world than bad.I know if I've had a tough time ( I know it wasn't the holocaust) I'd hate to see others have the same problems .
I dont believe anyone is born EVIL ,its all circumstances and environment that causes someone to act badly .

I do understand the older generation in Israel having a persecution complex but I think that the indoctrination of the younger generations is very wrong .No one can ever move forward if they hold on so tightly to the past ...thats the good and the bad in the past .Time to let it go?

No PECS. Paddyann spoke of faith in the human race, I questioned would the Jewish race have cause to have faith in the human race after suffering persecution for centuries , I have no idea if the answer is yes, no , perhaps or perhaps not.