David Lammy/Stacey Dooley

Jalima1108 so true, I have already donated to Comic Relief this year.

Well, I am trying to find a link to that short film but when I google all I get is David Lammy links.

If people suffer because of his statements and people here do not give then that will be a tragedy. African governments working towards a better life for their people is not going to happen overnight and in the meantime Comic Relief is plugging the gap.

while said child is undernourished or infirm .Come on...surely we're better than that!
I did see a short film the other day about one of the health care workers who is being funded by Comic Relief doing her rounds and how thankful people were to see her - one older woman had AIDS and said she gets no other help whatsoever.

So don't condemn this out of hand - although I do realise, as stated in my posts above, that much is wrong and that perhaps giving aid stops the leaders from doing what is right by their own people.

PECS
Of course there is racism, always was, always will be. It is not a one way street though. Every race has predjudices towards anyone who is different, remember the ethnic cleansing in Uganda, Bosnia etc. Whether it is a survival of the strongest phenomena that is part if our DNA I dint know. I do always imagine the earth as a petrie dish with colonies of bacteria, each will try to overwhelm and destroy its competitors. Maybe thats what we are on a more complex scale.

Gabriella54 "Why certain countries, such as those in the continent of Africa, need to be taught how to look after and work together with their fellow countrymen and women, heaven knows."

Whatever do you mean by that?

The only thing that keeps racism alive are racist attitudes and behaviours.
Being blind to racism does not mean it is not happening.

*Why certain countries, such as those in the continent of Africa, need to be taught how to look after and work together with their fellow countrymen and women, heaven knows.
Surely it's an inherent trait that even animals have.
If they need teaching the basics, there is no hope*

That is absolutely vile and has been passed on to the relevant authorities. It is classifies as hate crime.

Annie I'm sure there will be people on here who are "wealthy" its got nothing to do with how much money they have its the outdated attitude thats the problem.White saviour swoops in to sort things out because the "natives" cant and has a wee snap taken with a black baby to show how caring they are by even holding a child of colour never mind admiring it!! All the while grinning like an idiot while said child is undernourished or infirm .Come on...surely we're better than that!

I think your statement at 07.08 is wholly disingenuous Anja.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oh, and the majority of the citizens haven't caused the hurt. The majority of our ancestors caused the hurt. It's that sort of attitude that keeps racism alive and well. Punishing people for the crimes of their ancestors.

PECS isn't that like saying no one can have an opinion unless they've experienced something. People can imagine how it must feel. Otherwise how do we know it's wrong. I've never been murdered. I know it's wrong.

And I do not believe 'society as a whole' is racist. If it were, black people would still be repressed in this country and they're not.

Nothing is above criticism and as Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living. It is right that we consider the possibility that Comic Relief is using “tired and unhelpful stereotypes”. I will confess that I am tired of watching “poverty porn” in the numerous TV adverts asking for donations showing pictures of sick and malnourished children. As for the celebrity issue I don’t want to be entertained in this way any more. It is endless. Sir Bob’s admirable aspiration to end poverty has turned into an annual bun fight. If, as many posters say, this is the only way to raise money, then so be it but surely it can be refined and modernised. I want to donate and I do. I don’t need to put on a red nose as well. But then perhaps some people will only donate if they get something back e.g. an opportunity to take part in a sponsored event.

www.nicolagreen.com
David Lammy’s wife, if anyone is interested.

breeze I guess you have to let the victims of racism define racism.. not the majority group of citizens who have caused the hurt. Not saying that there are not 10000s of individuals who are not racist but society as a whole still is.

If Lenny's got any sense he'll stay right out of it. Before he's accused of letting his white ex wife be photographed holding a black baby.

As a founder of Comic Relief he must be mortified that something he helped create may go down the pan because a racist has undermined all the good work he helped to build by making white celebrities feel uncomfortable they ever held a starving black child and got involved.

The colour of one's skin 'shouldn't' matter PECS

And yes, racism does still exist. But accusing innocent people of racism when it isn't there causes more resentment, therefore more racism. It has the reverse effect.

D.L. should be focusing on 'real' racism and stop finding it where it doesn't exist.

Lenny spoke about this row yesterday. He said, in a jokey way, that David Lammy might say 'screw you white people'.

Unfortunately the colour of one's skin does matter! It would be great if it did not.
But being non-white in a majority white community is not always a walk in the park1! There is still huge prejudice against people who are black, Asian, Arab & Chinese etc because they look different and even if British born, some white British consider them less British!
Even on this thread people have alluded to the fact they do not think Lammy should have spoken out because, in their opinion, he is not quite 100% British

Do you cry when you see the absolute poverty and starvation brought to our attention by white/black celebs, or whoever? I do.
Does your heart lift when you are shown girls in school and healthier children as a result of us being made aware of their plight by a black or white celeb. (I couldn't care less who they are) and donated a small amount? I am.
I am sick of people who use colour to promote their own agenda, especially when they have enjoyed all the privileges that those highlighted in these mini documentaries probably never will.
Those who criticise the fundraising and the celebs who do the short films should walk in the shoes of those they are asking us to help and then they have earned the right to get on their peverse high horses and crtiticise. Those who want black only fundraising targetted where they want, good on you, get on with it!

Good posts POGS

This debate could go on for days but it seems the damage is already done. I've been looking at twitter this morning and many are withdrawing their donations to Africa and using hashtag 'ungrateful'.

I gave my point of view yesterday.

I would also hazard a guess any white celebrity with half a brain cell will seriously consider whether to give up their free time in the future to help. Careers can be ruined.

This saddens me as I believe we've raised a generation who are far more compassionate than previous ones. The greed of the eighties replaced with a generation who on the whole (yes I know there are the live off the state scumbags) care about the planet, diversity and helping others. Someone mentioned the pointlessness of sending a team of school kids out to Africa to paint a school thereby putting locals out of work. That isn't the point. The point is to teach those kids to help others. In the hope they'll go back to the UK and carry on that ethos.

One of my sons is in the entertainment business. Only just started out but doing well. Already been on the Beeb, at the National and Royal Exchange theatres and could be forgiven at his young age to just whoop it up and revel in the glory. One of the first things he did (and he's done a few now) was to get involved in a charity project (a small one encouraging unemployed youngsters to build gardens/grow vegetables using cast off plants). He got no kudos whatsoever from such a thing. He did it because he believed in the cause and he wanted to give up his free time to help. He could've gone shopping.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, racism won't be beaten until the resentment of the past is forgotten and people stop noticing what colour people are. Unhelpful comments from racists like D.L. sets that way back as white people get offended and those who are not racist start to feel racist because they feel they are being attacked or blamed for what their ancestors did many moons ago.

Lily65 started this thread. I've seen comments she has made before that have inflamed me. Stupid comments like 'Plantation shutters are racist' when some grans were talking about getting them for their home. I eat sugar. Sugar used to be grown on plantations. Does that make me a racist because of it's association with the slave trade from way back when?

I don't believe I am a racist and I'd like to see a world where we can all live together happily but maybe this can never happen. When you have organisations like 'The Black Awards' but god forbid you create 'The White Awards' what does this achieve? Resentment. That's what. It furthers the divide and makes white people think that blacks do not want equality, they want revenge and payback. There is oversensitivity and ridiculous situations where innocent actions are branded racist.

It does not help. It creates more tension.

If I saw a black man being attacked in the street by a group of whites I would be the first to scream in disgust as such a terrible thing to do to a person. THAT is racist. A white woman holding a black child in an attempt to raise awareness that some areas of Africa still need our help should never have been turned into such an inflammatory argument and D.L. is the one who has tried to use this for his own advantage here. Not Stacey Dooley who has raised awareness on a lot of issues and should not be shot down for this.

i h<ve such mixed feelings on this issue- and totally get what Lammy is saying. I've always felt uncomfortable with the 'voyeuristic colonialist' aspects of Live Aid and Comic Relief. And yet, tons of money are rasied for brilliant causes- so ...

Most of the problems and poverty in Africa were caused by colonialism and our greed- and still are ... and this should be addressed properly - raising lots of money once a year just does not do the issues justice.

Eloethan

In fact I will ask you the other part of my post of yesterday as you have posted a question.

POGS Fri 01-Mar-19 16:14:36

Let's reverse ' the picture'.

It's not white Stacey Dooley holding a black child, bearing in mind African children are naturally black, for arguments sake it's Lenny Henry holding a white child because a country that is predominantly white has experienced a disaster and the UK are holding a charity fund raiser.

I don't think for one ruddy minute anybody would mention the colour of Lenny Henrys skin.

I don't think for one ruddy minute ' the majority ' of people look for the colour of skin to make a point .

Do you think it matters what colour skin either the person complaining , or the person holding a child , or indeed the child for that matter .?

It is the periphery, the under lying tone of the questioner , the perception of what lies behind the complaint that will inevitably receive attention .

Eloethan

"I do wonder if the tone of the debate would be different if a white person had raised this matter. "
----

My tone would be no different and I would make the same point as I did yesterday.:-

" I do think the majority of people have ' moved on ' from the days of Colonialism , they have emerged in 2019 to live in a society that means we live, work, marry raise mixed families and to put it bluntly are frustrated by those who use colour to try and cause division, especially when the subject is over giving money to help other peoples lives irrespective of whether they are black, white or another.

Those who see a white person holding a black child as a 'White Benefactor ' a ' White Saviour ' are creating an issue with the pure intention of being controversial."

My dictionary sits on my dining table all the time
use it often, but then I like books, all books, but have
been known to prop iPad on it

Lily you know comedians from the countries where the money raised by Comic Relief goes? , I only know of the comedians in the UK