Police numbers - who believes What TM say?

trisher for once I totally agree with you. ??????

I disagree that we are a “racist society” trisher .

It is no secret that almost all of the victims and perpetrators of knife crime are young black males. What I don’t know is whether all the victims are as “innocent” as their families and friends would have us believe? (obviously some are just in the wrong place at the wrong time) or is it a case of kill or be killed ? In other words could the tables have easily been turned and victim become perpetrator?

Also to be fair we are talking about this as though it is a countrywide problem when it clearly isn’t .

By countrywide I mean U.K. wide.

look north people .Not ONE single death from knife crime in Glasgow in 2017 .London has asked for help with it but whether they actually take the help and advice is another story .Police numbers are up here ,crime at a 40 year low .This is not something thats widely known as it keeps being reported as a UK problem .We're dealing with things differently and it works .

www.theguardian.com/.../scotland-knife-crime-
public-health-issue-violence-uk
14 Dec 2018 - Scotland started treating knife crime as a public health issue – and violence plummeted, says Sarah Jones MP.

Of course some of the problem is lack of policing but I also think there is a cultural problem here. Many young children of West Indian heritage are brought up without a stable father figure in the family. Young boys need a male role model and some seem to find it in the gangs.

That is true Framilode and the burden falls on the single mother. I respect Cressida Dick’s summing up of the situation rather than our PM’s. I’ve lost all respect for May.

surely it is in families children are taught ‘right and wrong’.
Yes Anniebach

After the war many boys were brought up by single mothers, in poverty, because their fathers had been killed during WW2.
Did they turn to crime and violence? Very few.
In the main, they tried to make a better world.

"look north not one single death from knife crime" I know Glasgow got to grips it a while back. However, and I may be wrong, but my perception is that the relatively new phenomenon of "county lines" which is undoubtedly driving the escalation of knife crime around London, may be something that pertains to the south and is not prevalent in Scotland.

left a "with" out.

After WW2 the whole culture was different. In fact it’s worth looking at the difference and seeing if therein lies clues.

One thing stands out; authority be it the police or the mother were far more respected.

After WW2 we had a socialist government which believed people mattered.
All those posting about "black males" and "gang cultures" should take a serious look at if we are a rascist society. I would imagine they consider themselves as liberal, informed people.
I brought 3 boys up without a positive father figure. Many women of all races and ethnicity do.

Brixton and Toxteth riots ?

Racism ? black people are not racist ?

There are poor , white children too, always have been .

After the war, as before the war, women accepted they were homemakers, now a dirty word.

I don't care what anyone says but the break-up of families has an enormous impact on the lives of the siblings. No father figure. If and when a new " replacement " should enter the fold so does resentment and confusion and no child is ever going to abide by the rules of a stranger.

Unless corrected/educated, the children then grow up with an attitude that's difficult for them to shake off as the older siblings feel a responsibility since the departure of their " main " family member then this in turn takes on the position of " the boss " as the child ( usually male ) gets older.

Without the guidance and stability of home life it's then easier to get into criminal activities in order to provide money. It's not unusual for many of these children to either skip school or face expulsion for behavioural problems and so starts the rot and a road to crime.

I realise that teachers have a harder time within inner city schools than was ever reported but if teachers wrote down a list of troublesome pupils and hand it in to the police as a forewarning I'm sure it could/would go toward saving some of the crimes that are happening among youths. It's always best to catch them while they're young.

Background information can then be collated and built on. Specialist liaison officers would have to deal with this process in making these families understand that this sort of violent crime can't continue on our streets.

I too believe it is breakups of family life, no Male influence,
Often mother has boyfriends , in both black and white families. The state must provide everything . Wonder how many of these knife carriers have jobs , dealing in drugs is a way to earn fast money. Beats working.

I think the problem lies partly in the breakdown of stable family groups, partly in the resultant lack of respect for authority and partly as a result of austerity when police numbers were reduced and councils had to cut services. I do think that a 'tsar' for knife crime is a good idea - someone who can at least come up with a multi-disciplinary approach to solving the 'gang culture' and knife crime. I suspect that this will be a long time in coming though.

EllanVannin most inner city schools have in the past worked hard with their community police officer to identify children and to guide them along the safe route to adulthood. Unfortunately such schools are now completely underfunded and so are the police. The result is that these children are now abandoned and the struggle to keep them on track is so much more difficult. Funding the police will help but properly funding education and returning the Sure Start scheme would help as well.
It's no use condemning the culture we now live in, it won't solve any problems.

In fairness the police have brought lack of respect on themselves , this has given black youths cause not to trust police .

The problem for police is ‘stop and search’ if they do they are being racist , more riots

Granny Gravy 13
Hear, hear on all your posts on this subject.

If there is no connection between police numbers and crime, why bother having a police force at all?

Having police on the streets can't stop every instance of violent crime, vandalism, mugging, burglary, etc, etc. But having virtually no police on the streets creates a "wild west" environment which gives some youths (and not just youths) the feeling they can do as they please and get away with it. Conversely, those who are not naturally pre-disposed to be violent, feel they must carry a weapon in order to protect themselves. When there are few police officers/police community support officers actually on the street, the chance to form good relationships with local communities and to be in tune with what is happening on the ground is greatly diminished. There is also less time and money available for police officers to liaise with other organisations and participate in crime prevention programmes.

In addition, if victims of crime feel there is no point in reporting a crime because their experience has been that only very serious crimes receive immediate (or any) attention, they will be reluctant to put themselves to the trouble (and possible risk) of getting involved when witnessing an incident/possible incident.

anniebach stop and search can, I believe, be used if it is used fairly and with courtesy. If it primarily targets young black men then it will obviously negatively affect their opinion of the police - and when you give a person or a group of people a negative label, research has shown that, in time, they are likely to live up to that label.

Given the worrying increase in knife crime, stop and search may be a temporary way of trying to deal with the problem but, in the long run, I think there are many more issues that need to be addressed to prevent this violence. Virtually every area of public service has had to withstand, significant cuts, including youth services - youth clubs, after-schools clubs/activities, mentoring - housing, education, etc, etc. Target-driven schools that do not have the time or resources to offer meaningful help to children who disrupt classses due to learning difficulties or issues external to the school (such as poverty and insecure/sub-standard housing), are excluding children in large numbers. These children, whose parents may well be working, are left to wander around and are easy prey for criminal gangs.

Eleothan poverty and both parents working ?

Yes, very possibly in this day and age if you are a low paid worker.

I've never known of so many single parents in all my life. What's going on there ? Don't these selfish adults ever think about the children ? No, they don't, only their own selfish feelings. It's too easy to part company when either parent thinks the grass is greener then the poor kids get confused as they're pushed from pillar to post and sadly some suffering the most acrimonious splits.
It's no wonder and of no surprise to me that kids go astray and join gangs.

So there is nobody on this site who hasn't separated from a partner and become a single parent? And those that are, are selfish and irresponsible?

I'm referring to much young parents who haven't got a clue.

My own D is a single parent but she's in her late 50's and her AC are in their 30's. One still at home.