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Some thoughts about Elections and Referendums

(36 Posts)
GillT57 Mon 18-Mar-19 16:44:41

Back the the original question; could be that there is a rise on right wing politics, a rise in corruption and interference, but it also could be that thanks to social media, we, the public, are better informed and more aware of suspicious election results. Remember Idi Amin in Uganda with his 105% returns? He had such little regard for the electorate that he didn't even pretend. Nothing new about corruption, but still frightening times I think with the ugly rise of fascism.

GillT57 Mon 18-Mar-19 16:41:11

The European Army is not certain though, and if it does happen, wouldn't we be better being part of it rather than on the outside? Agree about the Americans though, especially with their current terrifying Commander in Chief!

RosieLeah Mon 18-Mar-19 16:34:13

Gill, perhaps if there is a European army, it might be, but at present, I think this is another case of European leaders being complacent. Heaven help us if the Americans are given the task of training such an army!

GillT57 Mon 18-Mar-19 16:30:14

Rosieleah to the contrary, Europe is stronger against Russia when it is united and it is therefore in Russia's favour to break up the EU.

RosieLeah Mon 18-Mar-19 16:25:13

One of the purposes of the EU is to keep more countries under a central control (one extremely good reason to leave). The Tories didn't want a 'Leave' result, so you would think that the results of our referendum would be tampered with. Obviously they weren't. I would have thought that European countries would actually be weaker as members of the EU, and this would suit Russia better. But I have to admit I don't understand all this political manoeuvring.( Don't want to nit-pick, but I think the plural of referendum is referenda.)

GabriellaG54 Mon 18-Mar-19 16:18:20

Talk is cheap.
If you were there
If you were part of any supposed or suggested wrongdoing
If you personally know the people allegedly involved and were party to their plans...your words might carry some weight.
Until then, it's all hot air. grin

yggdrasil Mon 18-Mar-19 16:09:55

"It also appears that Russia had a hand in a relentlessly damaging campaign against the other presidential candidate. In subsequent investigations, much of it deliberately planted, was blatantly misleading or downright false. "

Also here in the Brexit campaign. Russia gains a lot by breaking up the EU.

willa45 Mon 18-Mar-19 13:46:51

Jura, Paddyanne.....too bad we haven't had more responses. A larger number might reveal similarities and patterns that would negate mere coincidences or paranoia. I agree that knowing electoral results ahead of time, is a huge red flag.

In Venezuela, it was voter intimidation.....Maduro's armed guards would brandish assault rifles and stand over voters while they filled their ballots. There were many other irregularities (destroyed ballots, bribery, forgeries) that were indicative of voter fraud.
In the US, it may have been overconfidence which is almost the same as knowing results ahead of time. There were repeated assurances that victory, was as good as a 'done deal'. The language and demeanor often surpassed what most would consider the usual hope and optimism.
It also appears that Russia had a hand in a relentlessly damaging campaign against the other presidential candidate. In subsequent investigations, much of it deliberately planted, was blatantly misleading or downright false.

It appears that elections/referendums may have become the 'weapon of choice' for those who aim to weaken a nation's sovereignty or destroy Democracy altogether!

paddyann Sun 17-Mar-19 15:14:47

deliberate interference .Ruth Davidson knew the reults of the postal votes in Scottish Inedpendence referendum just minutes after the polls closed??? She was investigated so they said but nothing done .It would seem the votes were opened early so the Unionists could maipolate the figures .

jura2 Sun 17-Mar-19 15:08:53

short answer: YES

willa45 Sun 17-Mar-19 14:52:55

Food for thought:
Trump's victory in the US, Venezuela's Maduro, Brexit , Catalonian referendum....all have interesting things in common.
- Resulted from unscheduled or scheduled elections or
calls for 'special' referendums
- Elections/referendums resulted in surprising outcomes
and by very close margins.
- Unexpected results divided the country and raised
controversy (rigged process?) Just to illustrate....People of
a country must choose between a cardboard box with
(mystery) contents unknown vs. a vault full of gold ingots. When polls all favor the gold, controversy arises when Mystery box wins the an inexplicably contested election!
- Results are always very close Mystery box wins by a scant
2% margin!

So, can these processes be deliberately manipulated?

In the US, Russia has been accused of meddling in the 2016 election. Venezuelan elections have been conducted with blatant irregularities. Referendum are always called upon under unusual circumstances. Can they too be a convenient tool to manipulate the electorate?

Rabble rouser Carl Puigdemont initiated a referendum arbitrarily to further his own agenda for Catalonian independence. Spanish government had to quash Puigdemont's referendum in order to avert a Constitutional crisis.

So what's going on in the world today? Is it deliberate interference, mere coincidence or that the conspiracy theorists are multiplying?
Discuss......