Good News about Brexit! ✅

Just as I, who voted remain, am embarrassed to be associated with some of the views of the more strident remainers.

I think most of us have come across some appalling racist attitudes and some with silly reasons for voting leave.

Someone told me that they were too many Somalis in Bristol. Someone else said he voted out because these bloody foreigners didn't vote for us in the Eurovision Song Contest.

I ahave never suggested all leave voters were like that but I can see that Leave voters might be embarrassed to be associated with them.

I’ve never called anyone on here a thick Racist , I’ve have had a go at some of the ghastly leaders of the campaign like Nige, Boris , Govey et al, and their spurious claims, they’re fair game as they are in the public eye. I think some leave believers get defensive as they fear they may be associated with some who might accurately fit the description. Such as the one person in my family who voted leave “because she dislikes Nigerians(!)”?

varian
I agree with you!
& what ever happens with brexit, ( stay, leave, something in between, ) Brexit has highlighted the deep divisions within this country that will take decades to heal.
And I know we won’t agree on this, but if brexit is ‘cancelled’, the divisions, distrust, & general unease will be an awful lot worse.

The EU’s flawed future after Brexit: The referendum result reflected Europe’s failures, not British exceptionalism

Antonio Lettieri also writes in his article....

In most EU countries and, particularly, in the Eurozone, unemployment has reached historical highs. Poverty and inequality have increased hugely. The working class has been penalised via the marginalisation of trade unions, the dissolution of collective bargaining and attacks on the welfare state. The middle class has endured a steep decline in its economic status and social identity.

He wrote this a few years ago (2017) but the situation hasn't changed.

I have always maintained that workers suffer because a cheap migrant/nomadic workforce (one the no-borders EU policy encourages) cannot be unionised easily and cheap labour benefits the bosses whilst pay is kept low and workers rights can be overlooked. It's a capitalist dream. It has knock-on effects throughout the EU - and in the UK.

A couple of friends who make no bones about being far left and staunchly socialist, have been banging the drum about how lower paid, working class communities suffer because of EU policy. They are ardent leavers - as WAS socialist Jeremy Corbyn, well-known Eurosceptic. Shame on him for blowing with the wind and not taking a stand on behalf of the Labour Party and the working class.

Hi everyone - I’ve not posted for a couple of days as I’m pretty muddled as to where on Earth we are right now!

?

Day6
Wow!

might be better, might be worse - great to have a plan!

Um, crystaltipps I hate to point out that remaining in the EU, given the shaky state of many of the member countries and the unrest amongst communities in almost every country that contributes large sums to Brussels, is becoming very apparent.

Dislike of the EU is not only a UK phenomenon.

You'd stay and see it out when many are predicting the EU won't exist ten years from now.

The premise is flawed. Governments will have to respond to the concerns of their voters. Like it or not we are seeing the cracks. Our future, if we had remained, might be one of propping up the entire institution. Remainers seemed to want that.

You cannot ignore the crisis in the Eurozone.

"In short, Brexit must not be viewed as a product of a British historic and ideological aversion to building a European community of states. Instead, it reflects refusal by the world’s fifth economic power to be subjected to a level of suffocating control by the EU’s bureaucracy, which is devoid of popular legitimacy and is democratically unaccountable. This bureaucracy is a technocratic power which, with the key support of Germany, has imposed its flawed and devastating policies on Europe in an unsuccessful attempt to deal with the economic and social crisis – of which the migration crisis is one of the most troubling consequences (though far from the only one)"

So writes Antonio Lettieri, a former National Secretary of Italian Trade Unions-CGIL, Member of the ILO Governing Body, and Advisor of Labour Minister for European Affairs.

I know we all could be accused of selective hearing, viewing and comprehending, but as a couldn't care less stay or go type of person who did vote leave but could quite easily have gone the other way if the arguments were good enough.
I have to say that the constant abuse anyone one who voted leave and who puts their head above the paraphet incredible. My goodness here is bad enough, but Twitter is beyond belief. I view but rarely comment, it is a disgrace. I dont think half of those dishing out the abuse know anything in real depth about the EU past what the beaches and bars are like on the costas.
Views on here are entrenched, I thought I might find why folk are so vehement about remaining which might change my point of view but I dont think I have read anything to change me. It appears to be all fear and panic about what might be which is constantly topped up by the elitists who are making millions in profit across the EU from the explotation of the workers. Of course they want to keep the party going, of course they will try to discredit the working classes (if they complain) as left wing trouble makers. The scenario is so Orwellian.

Ginny

"This is all a bit hackneyed now I'm afraid Kandinsky. These arguments and name calling have been doing the rounds since 2016 and we've all moved on a great deal since then."
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No they have not.

They have held and expressed the same views/opinions time and time again on the copious Brexit threads since 2016 so you are correct on that point.

I can be assured there will in the future be posts that continue to call Leave voters uneducated, racist, xenophobic, gullable too old to have an option let alone God forbid a right to a democratic vote.

Vermine, Road kill and Brexshitters has not surfaced for a while and I hope those terms don't resurface but who knows.

OK Kandinsky , no worries, and no energy for a scrap.

There have from the beginning been lots of confused folk. No wonder.

The question of our EU membership, the single market, customs union, international trade deals, treaties, borders, the four freedoms including freedom of movement, the advantages and disadvantages of all these, the place of immigrants from the EU and elsewhere in our society and the difference between legal and illegal immigrants and refugees, the plight of "left behind" or "just managing" folk who have had a raw deal, and whether that was the fault of successive British governments or the EU - these are all very complicated and interconnected questions.

Very few folk (including me) have the right to say they totally understand all these complicated issues. It was utterly irresponsible and absurd for that complicated question to be put in a referendum where confused and ill-informed people were asked to give a simple yes/no answer.

Are you not allowed to mention other forums on here?
Twitter?
FB?

How weird, to mention a slanging match on another forum. The UK is not neatly divided up into goodies and baddies Leavers/Remainers.

Name calling? dear me. Lots of people are confused and fed up. What are they Confuseds?

I agree Ginny42.
The arguments are totally ridiculous now, but they’ll never stop.
Remainers are still very angry.

Sparklefizz
Why would leavers criticise the people who didn’t vote? Leave won.
Remainers should be the ones criticising them ( because they’d all have voted remain ) but they don’t say much about them.

This is all a bit hackneyed now I'm afraid Kandinsky. These arguments and name calling have been doing the rounds since 2016 and we've all moved on a great deal since then. Most posters on GN are discussing recent events in Parliament, how things may be resolved and how harmony might be restored.

Why does neither side criticise the millions who couldn't be bothered to vote at all??? The ones whose vote might have made the final result more decisive?

Kandinsky pot kettle black?

And if I had a pound for every time I’ve seen a remainer call a leaver a thick racist I seriously would be a millionaire.

varian

I don’t know if you’re only on gransnet or if you post on other social networking sites, but I can assure you, the other sites I’ve been on over the past 3 years ( Mumsnet being one of them ) remainers have been absolutely vile towards leavers. It’s there for all to see.
Just because remainers had a lovely middleclass, ( mostly middle-aged ) stroll through London last weekend doesn’t mean that online some of you are truly disgusting.

varian

" By comparison the most vocal leavers have been angry and aggressive from day one, gloating "we won, you lost"as if brexit was a playground game and threatening those who disagree."
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As opposed to the Remain posters who call Leave voters uneducated, racists, xenophobic, Brexshitters will die off anyway playground games.

There are a huge number of active brexit threads on mumsnet. I certainly don't agree with many of them. They use swear words far too often in my opinion, but it is striking that the vast majority are against brexit, and very few attack those who voted leave as opposed to the corrupt leave leaders.

Eh, the posts are on Mumsnet.

If you search for disgusting posts I am sure you can find them. They are very easy to find on any leavers forum or the readers comments of certain newspapers.

What has always been notable is how good-natured and law-abiding remainers are on the whole. The leave liars are criticised, but not the folk that were fooled by their lies.

By comparison the most vocal leavers have been angry and aggressive from day one, gloating "we won, you lost"as if brexit was a playground game and threatening those who disagree. The friendly atmosphere amongst the huge crowd in London on Saturday was fantastic. I have never heard any remainers threaten civil unrest.