“Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU” Petition

Why bother?

All the marches & petitions don’t achieve anything really. Well, not that I’ve noticed as nothing gets reversed anyway.

Wait for the ballot box people.

At least 6,093,916 people have already signed this petition, making it an all-time record

The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

“Darkness is good,” said white supremacist Steve Bannon, self-styled architect of Trump’s America, at whose feet Johnson and Farage sit in obsequious wonder. Try to catch the footage of Bannon setting out his plans for global domination by the far right, and Farage telling him how he has grown in stature. Nauseating.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/notre-dame-fire-cathedral-brexit-jeremy-hunt-steve-bannon-a8873051.html

Read about the top-secret school in Italy for far right activists set up by Steve Bannon, who has written the curriculum, and you will realise how the interconnectivity throughout Europe is planned by the Far Right. It has close links with top Tory politicians apparently.

There are many links and I know how some posters hate them, but if you want to know, just search for ^'training school for far-right “culture warriors”. Read the one in The Independent.

The Academy for the Judeo-Christian West (name chosen by Bannon) has taken over a remote 800-year-old former Italian monastery with the aim of becoming a “gladiator school” to train the “next generation of nationalist and populist leaders” who will propagate the ideology across Europe.

I found it disturbing. Some British MEPs or some standing in the current EU election are mentioned on the website. According to one report Bannon will teach a course on politics.

As a committed REMAINER I personally would be happy if Brexit was simply cancelled but that would probably cause unprecedented civil unrest. The only way to stop Brexit permanently is through a second referendum and that may still give a LEAVE majority.

There is a worrying trend across the whole of the EU towards the far right populist parties which some will argue means we are better out of it. However if the UK leaves the EU as part of the populist tide (ante German/French liberalism) there is an increased chance of conflict in Europe. Better try to fix from within than to appease. We are too close geographically to Europe not be part of it.

Remember history, what the rise of populism in the 1930's led to. There is no easy answer. Britain has traditionally been a moderating influence. We must get back to being just that. Brexit is far from moderating.

You forget demography Kandinsky - remain has a majority now just because so many older people who voted Leave have since died, and young people who want to remain are now able to vote and were not then. Plus all the rest of course - but demography alone has turned tables.

Not at all. In 2014 only about 5% of the population listed our EU membership as a top political concern.

The leave voters were for the most part conned and fooled by the leave campaigners during the year of so before the fraudulent referendum.

MaizieD
You really underestimate the intelligence of others if you think they were taken in by a promotion which featured a bus informing us that however many millions would go to the NHS if we left the EU. The reality is that leavers had all become utterly sick to death of the EU some considerable time before that but you have to latch on to what you describe as these 'lies' in order to make sense of it all.

For those who are really interested in the debate on Monday which was the result of three brexit-related petitions, including the 6 million+ Revoke Article 50 petition, you can watch the proceedings on BBC i-player.

Note the conspicuous absence of brexiters, especially in the second half when they walked out presumably because they'd run out of soundbites.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament

There's a really good twitter thread by Steve Analyst here:

twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1113548525621710848

It's the usual compilation of all the foremost Leave politicians telling us how easy it was all going to be and how we'd stay in the Single Market, etc. etc.

What he does point out is something that I think that people largely ignore. The vote was on our membership of the EU. The thing is that it is perfectly possible to access the single market and/or be in a customs union with the EU without being a member . When you see all the shysters assuring the electorate that we wouldn't have to leave the Single Market it wasn't lies, it was actually true. The hitch is, of course, that you have to accept the four freedoms in order to do so, but you can indubitably be in it without being an EU member.

So where the hell did all this no deal, let's lead the country into economic disasterland, it'll be fine in 50 years time, nonsense come from?

Anyway, do watch the thread

Leavers don't need to bother; they're perfectly comfortable with being on the same side as lying charlatans and as nobody could possibly foretell the future, (except them when it comes to telling us about all the disasters that are going to befall the EU) they didn't take any notice of the stuff about the Single market etc. etc.

It shows a contempt for the 6 million+ signatories. This is by far and away the biggest petition ever and grew in record time.

Three years ago almost half of those who voted wanted to remain in the EU. Since then we have been totally ignored as everything was about the "will of the 17m people who voted leave". As we know these people were swayed by many different versions of leave, based on promises from the leave campaigners and should now know that cake-and-eat-it was never possible.

It should now be for those who want to leave to arrive at a workable version of leave, acceptable to the EU 27, which does not endanger the Good Friday Agreement of the Union, maintains frictionless trade and does not leave us worse off or less secure. If such a version cannot be agreed, that is not the fault of Remainers.

If such a version of leave can be found, then it should be put to the people for a Final Say. The Final Say referendum is not the first choice of Remainers who would naturally prefer it if parliament were to Revoke Article 50 so we could remain in the EU on the same good terms we now enjoy, but it is a compromise which ought to be acceptable to both sides.

Haven't read it, but saw a little and knew the Brexiteers left. I don't understand how it can be called a debate if those against it won't participate.

Has anyone else read the transcript of the debate on the 3 petitions which took place yesterday. viz

Read the transcript: hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-04-01/debates/DAEA92D0-DB85-4370-B65C-2BB2FF6B5AE9/LeavingTheEuropeanUnion

apparently all the pro Brexiteers walked out and the final result was that they ran out of time and no vote was taken.

Very disappointed = YES. Surprised = No.

Whenever Remainers post predictions of our projected economy post Brexit Leavers dismiss them as 'opinion', 'experts disagree' and 'we can't possibly know what is going to happen'. Well, it should be difficult to dismiss this analysis of what has already happened. It comes from a very recently published report 'Article 50 - 2 Years On'

The initial impact came through the exchange rate. After the votes were counted, the value of sterling quickly declined and it has settled around 10% below its pre referendum value. A fall in the pound increases the costs of UK imports and in the year after the vote consumer prices rose rapidly. Analysis by researchers at the Centre for Economic Performance estimates that the Brexit vote increased consumer price inflation by 1.7 percentage points in the year following the referendum.

Rising prices put pressure on household budgets and, by June 2017, the Leave vote was costing the average UK household £404 per year. Analysis of the sources of slower GDP growth finds that reduced consumer demand contributed to lower output growth from late 2016 onwards

By contrast, business investment initially showed no evidence of a Brexit effect. However, this changed in 2018 when business investment declined for four consecutive quarters and recorded its lowest annual growth rate since the financial crisis a decade earlier. Investment today increases productivity tomorrow, so declining investment is a worrying sign for future growth prospects.

The one bright spot for the UK economy has come from unemployment, or rather its absence. The labour market has continued to create jobs and unemployment is at its lowest level for over 40 years. Of course, the combination of increasing employment and slow output growth implies that productivity growth has been disappointing. And without productivity growth living standards will not rise. But this problem predates Brexit and is not unique to the UK

Trade and foreign investment flows have also started to respond to the referendum. The decline in sterling makes UK exports cheaper, but, so far, there is no evidence this has boosted exports. On the contrary, research shows that firms have become less willing to export because they fear future increases in trade costs. A team at Cambridge University has found that, following the referendum, UK firms were less likely to start exporting to the EU and that existing exporters were more likely to stop exporting. Importantly, they show that the impact is greater for firms that would face higher tariffs in the event of a no deal Brexit.

Analysis by the UK Trade Policy Observatory finds that the Brexit vote led to a decline in new foreign direct investment in the UK. Looking at flows in the opposite direction, work by the Centre for Economic Performance shows that the Leave vote has led to a 12% increase in new investment projects by UK firms in the EU, but has not affected UK investment outside of the EU. Together these studies suggest that Brexit is making the UK a less attractive place to do business.

ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Article-50-two-years-on.pdf

The report contains analysis of many aspects of Brexit and its effects, both what has happened and what is possible in the future. Worth a read

I agree dinahmo EU membership has enriched this country and its becoming evident we are going to be worse off out, but I think you’ll find a lot on here don’t care or just are convinced by the Daily Mail type thinly veiled dislike of anything or anywhere “foreign” and a sort of “we are British we are the worlds best at...” superiority mentality. Also the head in sand - we will be fine/ the sky won’t fall in etc ( forgetting that the sky hasn’t fallen in whilst we’ve been EU members either). Lots of people believe that all our public services are going to be so much better off and we won’t have to obey any EU rules, though they actually don’t know any EU rules or believe the lies Eurosceptics have peddled.

A few statistics for those who think the EU stymies the UK's growth. In case you are too young to remember we were known as the poor man of Europe before we joined the EU.

Between our joining the EU and 2016 the per capita GDP of the UK economy grew by 103%. This exceeded Germany at 99% and France at 74%. The growth even exceeded that of the US at 99%.

As regards exports 44.7% of ours goes to the EU, 22% to Asian countries, 14% to North American countries, 12.5% to other European countries not in the EU and the remainder to African and South American countries. These are 2014 figures. Back in 2006 55% of our exports went to the EU.

The parliamentary Brexiteers continue to affirm that we will be able to increase our trade with China and Australia for example. At the moment we import twice as much from China as we export to them. With regard to Australia currently the UK is their 5th largest trading partner. This is because of our presence within the EU and is likely to diminish once we leave. The former Australian PM, Malcolm Turnbull, on a recent visit to the UK, stated that it would be highly unlikely that exports to Australia would substantially increase because of distance and because they are concentrating upon the countries closer to them.

I think these figures show that the UK as a whole has benefited from EU membership and I hope that some of you will agree with me.

Nah Framilode
Not in a million years.
Other people's jibes have absolutely no effect on me.

Alex's Alexa
I blame mild...you know what.

Alex's...the name conjures up a round tubular shape with a weird accent which notes everything you say.
The best thing is that you can switch it off when it gets on your wick, just as I can ignore certain remarks as garbled rubbish.

Gabriella G54 Hoist by your own petard.

Alexa you can probably copy the graphic by right clicking on it and choosing 'save image as..' (well, I can on my laptop, not sure about a phone or tablet) It should then be saved in your pictures folder.

You could try the 'copy image' option but it never seems to work for me.

Or you could try saving one of these images from its original page:

duckduckgo.com/?q=eu+contribution+as+a+percentage+of+uk+budget+2018&iax=images&ia=images

But Gabriella surely one enjoys being informed by someone who knows more than oneself?

"Condescending behaviour at it's worst" is setting oneself up as a grammar guru and lecturing others about their perceived mistakes, while making those same mistakes in hectoring posts!

Thank you varian for some clearly presented, relevant information.

PS I'd like to confirm that I am not uneducated. I am not illiterate. I do not "suffer" discalculia.

Thank you, varian, for the chart; I'm sure many of us agree that it is both helpful and interesting.

GabriellaG54: ”^You set yourself up as educator to the supposedly uneducated, illiterate and those who 'suffer' discalculia.
This is condescending behaviour at it's worst^."
(no doubt you mean "at its worst")

Really, GabriellaG54...

(words fail me, actually)

PS if anyone would kindly instruct me how to copy and paste graphics I'd like to post this to my FB page.