"You cannot betray the six million people"

Who, apart from remainers, say that leavers are afraid of another vote Nonnie? I'm not afraid of another vote, I'm just disgusted that so many are seeking to simply ignore the 17.4 million votes for Brexit.

I want to know why MP's overwhelmingly voted to trigger article 50 when they clearly had no intention of honouring it?! Also why both the main party's went into the GE on the back of delivering brexit, when all some of them really want to do is wreck it?! I don't expect any answers to this either Nonnie!!

Once again I will ask the same question that others have asked: Why are Leavers worried about a vote on the current facts? If so convinced that it is 'the will of the people' they should be asking for one.

No, I don't expect a reply, never had one before.

The Uk has over 60 million people so 45 million will be of voting age. That is over 7 bunches of 6 million people. How can you please all? You can't; you have a system where all vote a representative and they do it on our behalf. That is called democracy and not individuals voting in groups of a million or more.

Donald Tusk is a busy man and was just as fed up as we all are. He has to speak English after all and I think if there had been more UK people speaking German and/or French there would have been a better understanding of basics.

According to EU rules ( those silly rules some would like to be done with) 75% of the voting public public is a majority everything else is just advisory.

Well said, Ginny42 and Greta

The 'will of the people' in 2016 is not the same as the 'will of the people” in 2019.
Anyway, it was always a nonsense expression. 'Democracy' also seems to have lost its meaning. You can now twist and turn it any way you like. As long as it respects the 'will of the people'.

When does 'the majority' from 2016 become history? In a fast-moving world it's just not logical to think those decisions should still carry weight almost 3 years later. So Parliament are making decisions today based on a historical figure. The world has moved on whilst we're stuck in a time warp.

Yes, I'm sure everyone has had enough, I certainly have especially from remainers who simply wont accept the referendum result.

You don't indulge the will of the majority varian; you respect it.

The "will" of these 17.4 million has been indulged ad- infinitum for the last three years and at long last the British people have had enough of this brexit nonsense.

Funny how the will of the 17.4 million people who voted for Brexit can be betrayed but not the 6 plus million who have signed this dubious on line petition.

A democracy is not a democracy if it refuses to accept the will of the majority and does everything it can think of to subvert it.

It matters if you are talking about the "will of the (British) people". As David Davis said " a democracy is not a democracy if it cannot change its mind".

For goodness sake MaizieD !!

Neither is the exact number of those who voted to remain.

In any case, when anyone refers to the 17.4 million who voted to Leave the EU they mean the actual voters who voted in the referendum on the day, what the heck does it matter if any numbers have changed ( on either side.)

I would describe it as not being 17.4 million now.

Hallelujah! That is precisely what I was trying to do. Except that it is referred to as the 17.4 million as if it was a discrete and unchanged entity. Which it isn't

ps and add that I have the added stress of a husband who can't stop ranting about it.

Who else is going to support such a deal? The DUP? The LP?
I'm glad I won't be around tomorrow night to watch it.
If what the Independent says is correct. You never know with the press.

Fennel I agree, but why are you speechless? TM has done nothing but cave in to these extreme brexiters since she became PM.

A quote from The Independent:
"Theresa May is set to push ahead with a critical vote on part of her Brexit deal after overcoming the speaker’s ban on repeatedly putting the same plan to MPs.

Commons leader Andrea Leadsom confirmed the government will exclude any decision on Britain’s future relations with the EU in Friday’s vote - focusing solely on the withdrawal agreement."
I'm speechless, she has caved in completely to the extreme brexiteers in her party.

Perhaps there would be three choices. Mrs May's deal, Remain, or crash out with no deal.

That's probably what it's going to come down to anyway.

If there were another referendum, surely it would have to be run like the first one?! Or, would leave be off the ballot paper and just Mrs May's deal (or whatever) or Remain be the choice?

Two queries! a) why did a vast majority of MP's vote for article 50 when as remainers , they were totally opposed to brexit ? and b) why did the two main parties go to the country on the back of delivering brexit when in fact as remainers, again they were totally opposed to it, and in the case of some MP's determined to bring brexit down? Surely this is the epitome of dishonesty, particularly the former!!
Their careers?!!!!

You lot tell me how you would describe something which no longer contains exactly the same components that it had on one day three years ago.
I would describe it as not being 17.4 million now.

Yes, do give up.
It may have changed slightly for Leave voters and also changed slightly for Remain voters.
Any referendum we may have ( should that happen) is unknown, but could be as the polls suggest for a GE, pretty close. There is no point to any speculation MaizieD

I don't think I am the only one struggling to understand just which part of no longer exist or have died you are referring to

I give up.

You lot tell me how you would describe something which no longer contains exactly the same components that it had on one day three years ago.

We do not need to guess the current state of opinion be estimating how many leave voters might have died or changed their minds or whatever. Properly conducted opinion polls carried outover the last eighteen months or more have shown a consistent lead for Remain. In spite of this, top psephologist Sir John Curtice has until now been quite cautious about the true state of public opinion, but yesterday that changed with the publication of a significant new poll .

"Brexit has ceased to be the “will of the people” and in a second referendum 55 per cent would vote Remain, analysis of British Social Attitudes Survey respondents has suggested. The new National Centre for Social Research data also found that just six per cent now think the UK will secure a good Brexit deal - a massive reduction from the 33 per cent who were optimistic about the outcome of negotiations when the Article 50 process was triggered in March 2017.

The findings have led the centre’s senior research fellow Sir John Curtice to warn MPs discussing Brexit in Parliament: “There is seemingly room for debate about whether leaving the EU is still the ‘will’ of a majority of voters in the UK. “Perhaps the key message for the politicians as they decide what to do is that those on all sides of the argument might be best advised to show a degree of humility when claiming to know what voters really want.”

The centre’s analysis was based on interviews conducted between 24 January and 17 February with 2,654 adults who had previously participated in the British Social Attitudes Survey. It found that only 79 per cent of those who voted Leave in the 2016 referendum said they would vote for Brexit again. The analysis found that nearly two-thirds of ex-Leave supporters now thought Brexit would be bad for the British economy.

The researchers also found that another factor in the apparent swing to Remain was the tendency of those who didn’t vote in the 2016 referendum to say they would now vote to stay in the EU. Fully 56 per cent of the previous non-participants said they would now vote Remain, compared with only 19 per cent who now backed Leave.

When researchers extrapolated from the survey data to see what the outcome would be if the electorate were again asked the 2016 EU referendum question - ‘Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?’ – they found a hypothetical 55 per cent majority for Remain. This would suggest the 52-48 Leave vote registered in the 2016 EU referendum had now become a 55-45 majority in favour of Remain."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-will-of-people-poll-leave-remain-eu-second-referendum-vote-centre-social-research-curtice-a8839996.html

the whole 17.4 million who voted Leave no longer exist. A considerable number of voters have died since casting their votes
I don't think I am the only one struggling to understand just which part of no longer exist or have died you are referring to.

The claims are that young people would have voted to remain, so the number 17.4 million presumably no longer exists.