"You cannot betray the six million people"

Faisal Islam on Sky News was explaining to Kay Burley what had happened in the latest cabinet meeting, when the Brexiteers protesting on Westminster started to shout behind the reporter.

As his report finished he called for the presenter to allow him more time to ask the protester wearing a UKIP badge why he was shouting “treason” behind him.

“Why did you just shout ‘treason’? How is that helpful?” asked Islam.

The protester claimed that Theresa May was “acting against the interests of the country”, before telling the reporter to “look it up in the dictionary, it’s what it means”.

The reporter was irritated and bemused, pondering how it was helpful “shouting names at the prime minister” when she was “trying to find solutions”.

He said: “You may disagree with that, but why do you shout treason?”

The campaigner claimed it was “because she’s a traitor” before resorting to saying that “the truth hurts” and that it was his “right” in a “free country” to be able to make those comments.

Islam did not disagree he had a right to have a difference of opinion, but could not understand how everyone who had a different opinion to the campaigner could be considered “traitors”.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/faisal-islam-on-sky-news-with-ukip-reporter-1-5973647

So now, in our disunited kingdom, "traitor" is an insult to be thrown at anyone who disagrees with the brexiters.

What have he come to? We cannot let prejudice and ignorance win.

I dislike the use of words like betrayal. Should I feel betrayed that my MP, having promised me and other constituents that a no-deal brexit could not possibly happen, has actually voted for it? Possibly, but then should all those who voted leave because they believed pie-in-the-sky undeliverable promises and outright lies from the cheating leave campaigners not also feel betrayed?

I thought it was very good, too, humptydumpty but, for some obscure reason, Labour didn't today.

Nothing 'won' so, heigh ho, off we go again. Will May try MV4 (or is it MV3.5) or will Bercow disallow it?

The times are getting a bit too interesting for my liking

I wouldn’t have thought so Fennel, but you never know.

Personally I like the sound of this amendment, to be voted on for the first time today:

Motion G: Parliamentary supremacy
Proposer: Joanna Cherry, Scottish National Party

This option offers a series of steps to prevent the UK leaving the EU without a deal. First, it requires the government to seek an extension if a deal has not been agreed two days before the deadline for leaving.

If the EU does not agree to an extension, on the day before the UK was due to leave, MPs would be asked to choose between a no-deal Brexit or revoking Article 50 to stop Brexit altogether.

In the event of revoking Article 50, an inquiry would be held to find out what type of future relationship with the EU could command majority support in the UK and be acceptable to Brussels.

The title of this thread reminded me of another 'six million'.
I wonder if Tusk was thinking of that too. He is a Pole.

It is. I doubt if anything meaningful will come from the 'debate' but I think that the sheer number of signatories will be having a political effect.

Isn’t this petition up for debate in Parliament sometime today?

I rather bothers me when people of my own age say they did something and would do it again regardless of new information. They haven't listened of refused to take note. I cannot believe that anyone on whichever side of the argument has not learned a lot in the past 3 years. There is so much I didn't know, when I thought I had heard it all, that I am still open to persuasion. Closed minds do so much harm.

This morning I read a tweet from someone who voted leave because of VAT on tampons and ebooks. Of course there should not be tax on those but is that enough reason to leave?

It is the use of such inflammatory terms as "betrayal" and "traitor" by politicians and the media that has encouraged anger and aggressive behaviour amongst leave voters.

In reality we have had two years of the government struggling to deliver the undeliverable promises of the misleading leave campaign. It is now time to be honest and admit that it is impossible"

It’s not crunch time today in the HoC it’s another sideshow. TM will listen but not act on any of it. She will drag the corpse of a deal back for a vote in a day or two. God loves a trier! She’s delusional.

Oh Cindersdad you know what they say, God loves a tryer. I hear you clearly, but I'm afraid much of it is falling on deaf ears. It makes perfect sense to me as you sum up exactly my position on the issues involved.

It's going to be crunch time today in Parliament, let's hope that common sense prevails. There has to be compromise and it has to come from Westminster.

It's not a question of betrayal but a matter of recognizing reality. The simple fact that over 6 million have signed the petition shows a real change in public opinion. Much of the media and the government still clings to the result of June 2016 despite:

1 Brexit as promised is undeliverable, TM's deal or a softer Brexit will not satisfy anyone, REMAINERS or LEAVERS.
2 A hard NO DEAL Brexit will inflict so much harm on the economy more so than than the almost 3 years of dithering.
3 There is overwhelming evidence that the 2016 pole was seriously flawed through mismanagement and proven illegality.
4 Back in 2016 the majority of voters did not fully understand the implications. We now have a better level of understanding.
5 There is no Credible answer to the Northern Ireland question. The Peace Process is too important to risk.
6 We can still trade with the world from within the EU if we make things that people want to buy at a price they can afford.
7 There was a 21 year gap between WW1 and WW2. Since WW2 we have had over 70 years of relative peace.
8 Since 2016 the makeup of the electorate has changed by around 4 million souls. Many youngsters who could not vote in 2016 can now vote and it is their future. They are owed a say.

Oh okay Dinah, no problem. Welcome to Gransnet.

maddyone

No , it was intended for Lutongranny. I'm new to this forum and had, perhaps mistakenly, assumed that if I ticked 'Add comment' against the post I was responding to, it would appear below it.

Is that to me Dinah, or a more general point?

But it's OK to betray the 16.1 million who voted to Remain?

Incidentally, I’m the only one in my entire family who has actually changed their position since the original referendum.

Indeed Greta, you are right, the referendum is a once in a lifetime event, or is supposed to be, whilst general elections are held every five years, or are supposed to be. My more important point is that whilst some people may be better informed now, it seems to be shown in my family at least, that many people simply would not be better informed.

Apart from that, if we have to have a second referendum, I think I might actually lose the will to live

But that’s just me, obviously.

I for one would be more than happy to have one oldfossil just so long as it was for Remain or WTO. I actually think Leave would romp it on that choice as I think Leavers as tired of all the fudging ‘trying to get a (wishy washy) deal’. We voted OUT and that’s what we would like to see delivered.

Ah GrannyGravy13 thank you for your little update.

Actually I really appreciate it on a personal level because on another Brexit thread this morning crystaltipps called me out saying I had opined I wouldn’t be posting about Brexit after 29th March and it puzzled me because I didn’t say that and wondered why she had thought it.

Turns out she was confusing me with you! You were the one who said it. Both of us Leavers, so an easy mistake to make!
?

Everyone must agree that, whichever way they voted in the referendum, we now understand far more now about what Brexit involves than we did then. Another vote would be no betrayal. How could it be? A larger mandate for Brexit would silence criticism of ‘dodgy dealings’ in the pro Brexit team, moneyfrom Aaron Banks, lies about the NHS and immigrants onceand for all. What is not to like?

I voted leave so we could take any fall out and ensure UK is enabled to get itself into a sound position for our childrens sake before the EU implodes and all the other countries start scrambling for trade deals.
Remaining is only postponing the inevitable.

I seem to recall that we've had someone on this forum who voted Leave because her children asked her to
I see nothing wrong in that, actually, Maizie, as we were supposed to be considering the future of our DC and DGC when deciding how to vote in the referendum.

I would not specifically have changed my mind if I was determined to vote one way or the other, but I did take my DC's thoughts into consideration before making a final decision.

As so many remainers have said on these threads - we'll be dead soon.

MaizieD I think you are referring to me........ 5 children, 4 partners and Mr.GG13 were/are all for leaving the EU. As it is their future I changed my vote to leave.

I also said I would not be posting on " Brexit threads" after 29/03/19, but thought it was only respectful to acknowledge your post.