The Second World War and Great Britain - we were not alone

Absolutely agree with everyone on here who has said that this information should not be used as anti Brexit propaganda.
In fact I think we’re all fully aware of just how much other nations fought alongside us in both world wars. My father fought, he was on the front line, in Belgium, Holland, and Germany in 1945. He was in The Black Watch, although he wasn’t Scottish. The Black Watch had suffered huge losses as it fought it’s way up through the continent, and so was replenished by English soldiers to fight alongside the Scots. My father was immensely proud of having served in The Black Watch, and he wore his badges proudly all his life, at certain functions. He was shot and seriously injured in Germany in the Reichswald, but luckily he survived, despite the severity of his wounds and huge loss of blood. He was 18 years old.
The British know about the last war because our parents/grandparents lived it and fought it.
The Swiss were neutral I believe in both the world wars. I don’t think we need any lectures about who fought, died, and was injured in the last war. Incidentally my father’s cousin was killed in the last war.

Oh for heaven's sake. If everyone knows about the role of other countries as well as the UK in WWII what is the problem? However, I'm not sure everyone does know what happened - particularly not younger people. I would think the impression they get from our media is that only Britain's contribution to defeating the Nazis was significant enough to be worth a mention.

I think anyone should be able to post what they wish, provided it is true and is not against the law. Do we have to go through some sort of vetting procedure to determine what subjects we are allowed to raise or comment on - with especial scrutiny of those not living in the UK?

Why is the OP considered to be anti-English? I don't agree with everything jura says in the EU debate and do not share her very strong feelings on the subject (though I do share her concern) but I think the nasty comments made about her nationality demonstrate the sort of attitude that leads to leavers being seen as xenophobic.

I wonder how many Gransnetters actually experienced WWII in terms of being old enough to really understand what was going on and to consequently represent themselves as experts on the subject.

Just as bad when people use it as anti-English propaganda too.



This thread has reached a new low in Gransnet.

I don’t do the political stuff so I may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely,but is Jura Swiss?

The Swiss opted to stay neutral, to not oppose the Nazi regime, to allow atrocities to happen in a neighbouring country, to preserve their own lives and wealth.

I would be interested to know why Jura feels she has any right to comment on any aspect of the Second World War.

I don't mind anybody pointing out the number of other countries involved in the war who fought along side of us, the numbers who died, etc when they are doing it in an educational manner or pointing out what a tragedy it was so must never happen again. What I really object to is that anybody should use it as anti-Brexit propaganda. I am very grateful that those that fought on our behalf gave us the freedom to vote Leave.

Also annoying is the phrase "In the dark days when England stood alone". Especially when followed by the "Dunkirk Spirit" when the truth was that the Highland Regiments were ordered to fight the rearguard action while the others escaped. The Highlanders were either killed or captured and held as POWs

Sorry, Chewbacca, I should make it clear that my reference to you was in response to:
The witterings are irritating merlot but relatively harmless

not any of your views, but those of the OP.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

To be proud of our servicemen/women and civilians who went above and beyond the call of duty often paying the ultimate sacrifice does not in anyways detract from the work and sacrifice of the allied forces.

My Fil did not return in 1945, he was still in active service in Burma.

For some unknown reason it seems that British pride is something to be ashamed of.

Other countries do not hang their head in shame for historical misdeeds.
They stand proud, wave their flag and sing their national song.

The United kingdom (Scotland, England, Wales and NI) is one of the most inventive, charitable and welcoming society in the World.

I served proudly as a British Army officer for over 20 years

I never realised that, jura

The witterings are irritating merlot but relatively harmless. But I find it personally upsetting that it could even be suggested that our WW11 Allies are being used as fodder to continue to inflame the Brexit argument. No matter which way we voted; for whatever reason we voted as we did; our Allies shouldn't be dragged in to it.

If there are any GNetters on here who have relatives who came to our aid in WW11, I'd like you to know that I am deeply grateful to them for what they did, and what they gave. The OP does not speak for me.

For one brief moment I thought that jura had served proudly as a British army officer for over 20 years then I realised what a ridiculous idea that would be.

Do pack it in, jura. The current political situation is causing enough turmoil without your endless witterings.

indepted should read indebted

Jura you really should make it clear when you are quoting from another source, and especially when the quotation makes up an OP.
You should state what the source is, and your reasons for quoting.

I shan’t be reading any more posts on this thread.

I am indebted to every person who fought in the Second World War and I'm indepted to all who kept the home fires burning. Without their sacrifice and bravery I wouldn't live in the freedom I do today.

However, it is this freedom that allows me to vote as I see fit and I voted to leave the EU.

I'm sure Churchill felt betrayed by the voters when he was ousted in 1945 but he excepted the result.

Well said Lemongrove and Chewbacca. IMO the OP was being deliberately inflammatory - and all to get a reaction. Poor show

Lemomgrove hit the nail on the head: contentious threadsRus

Good post Chewy

'^This post is for all those who complacently - even gloatingly - say things like "We stood and^ won WW2 alone" and "We survived rationing without help during WW2, Brexit will be a piece of cake ".'

In all the shenanigans of Brexit, referendums, arguments, marches and thousands of posts on the subject, I have never seen anyone claim that WW11 was won by the British single handedly. On every Remembrance Day the help, support and the lives lost of our Allies has been fully acknowledged and recognised. I feel a mixture of sadness and anger that the lives of British and Allied troops, all lost in WW11, are being trundled out to be picked and argued over for another bloody Brexit thread.

A new low has been reached imo.

Sorry, Dinahmo I disagree, it doesn't follow that because people voted leave, they are unaware of our history. They just interprete it differently.

I think arguments like this just exacerbate the divisions between those supporting leave and remain.

I am so fed up with the whole business from start to finish that I have completely opted out of the debate and I am now beyond caring what the result is one way or the other. I doubt it will make much difference to anything.

On the contrary, many people on GN need to be educated about the events and our allies in the second world war. I would suggest that it is not common knowledge. If it was, why are so many people keen to leave the EU when membership has been one of the reasons for the long period of peace since 1945.

The reason for the post is explained clearly by the writer, who was there and lost friends, and saw it with his own eyes.

' This post is for all those who complacently - even gloatingly - say things like "We stood and won WW2 alone" and "We survived rationing without help during WW2, Brexit will be a piece of cake".'

- because this is what so many say when asked about why they voted for Brexit and still thing it will be the 'best for Britain' - we have survived the war and we will survive this too- and it is nonsense, sorry.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Jura I am reminded of that rather vulgar phrase about eggs and grandmothers. There is not one country on the list you provided where it is not common knowledge that they made their contribution to the success the allies had in defeating Hitler.

Even if people cannot name many specific countries, we always talk of the allied victory in Europe, not the British victory. The phrase 'Britain stood alone' applies to a very short period in 1940, when all other countries in Europe had been occupied by the Germans and we were the only state with a government to speak for us, still standing against Hitler.

I am not quite sure what the purpose of your post was, but as I said ................

I disagree ,we need people to realise how many of our European friends lost their lives too and who fought beside us.I know Polish people who came here during an d after WW11 ,They are horrified by some remarks on social media saying Poles go home etc .Maybe the generation beneath us doesn't understand that Hitler would have won if these men and women hadn't been involved.Our losses may have been high but as the OP states many were much higher.Maybe then they would see that IMMIGRATION isn't bad but essential to our wellbeing ,in many ways .